Auto Save, Backup Files etc.

[Doug Park]

I am presently working on a project to combine each floor plan into a single file. This has some side effects that spread throughout the system causing me to address some other areas involving the saving of files.

Specifically, the backup files that we generate ".PB*" and the auto save files need to be modified. While I'm in the code I can make some overall design changes that could make these features much simpler and more reliable.

Backup Files: At the moment I'm thinking of placing backup files in a subfolder of the directory where the plan or layout file is located called "backups". A backup file would have the form "myfile_2004_03_30.plan". Where "myfile.plan" is the name of the file you have saved your plan file in. This has the side effect of creating a daily history of backup files.

In addition it makes maintaining a historic archive of your projects automatic. The down side is that it consumes disk space in a somewhat unbounded manner.

Auto Save Files: It has always seemed logical to me that auto save should simply do a save at the time interval that you have chosen. This simplifies things a lot in the code.

In any case I'm planning on dropping the use of the extension to distinguish between the kind of file it is. This should make managing these files easier.

Any thoughts on how these features should be implmented would be appreciated.

Thanks,

[spencerdesign]

Backup Files: At the moment I'm thinking of placing backup files in a subfolder of the directory where the plan or layout file is located called "backups". A backup file would have the form "myfile_2004_03_30.plan". Where "myfile.plan" is the name of the file you have saved your plan file in. This has the side effect of creating a daily history of backup files.

Great Idea Doug! I wouldn't worry about disk space consumption. With the large hard drives of today, this would not be much of an issue IMHO. Besides, older backup/archive folders could be deleted if desired. Each archive folder could be backed up daily that way, and actually save CDR space, since we are not backing up a duplicate copy. It would help with folder clutter as well. Can you make thumbnails optional while you are at it? And, when an "export of all plan files" is executed, there is no need for backup copies.

Thanks for asking,

Sam

[Doug Park]

Sound's good to me. I'll see what I can do.

On the topic of Auto Save: I've discussed the issue with several people here at ART and have come up with the following:

When auto save fires off it will save to the "backups" folder a file of the form "myplan_auto_save.plan". When you re-open "myplan.plan" it will check the date against the auto save file. If the auto save is newer you will be given the opportunity of opening it. Since we already know where the original file is, save will automatically go back to the original file.

This check will occur when you open a file rather than when you launch Chief, so you don't have to figure out what to do with a bunch of recovered files all at once.

Please be aware that any ideas that are discussed here may or may not get implemented for the next version.

[spencerdesign]

When auto save fires off it will save to the "backups" folder a file of the form "myplan_auto_save.plan". When you re-open "myplan.plan" it will check the date against the auto save file. If the auto save is newer you will be given the opportunity of opening it. Since we already know where the original file is, save will automatically go back to the original file.

That sounds great to me! If the auto save version wasn't exactly the one you wanted, you could close without saving, re-open, and say no to the option. For those who might find this annoying or unnecessary, they could simply turn off auto save all together.

Thanks again,

Sam

Of course, we are all aware that any ideas that are discussed here may or may not get implemented for the next version.

[Ray C]

Hi Doug
I’m thinking that the auto generated backup “folder” should read “Myfile.backups” with the backup files contained to read as you suggest "myfile_2004_03_30.plan". If we are saving more than one plan to a folder, the backup folders for those plans will be easier to figure out than “backup folder1”, backup folder2” and so on.

When you say, “daily history of backup files” do you mean each time we hit F3, Chief will add another backup file to this new folder. I hope so, this would give us the option of returning to many points during the day or even week if we are given the choice through program preferences.

As for the auto save

>>If the auto save is newer you will be given the opportunity of opening it. Since we already know where the original file is, save will automatically go back to the original file.<<

I think a warning at this point reminding us that we are about to save over the original with the auto save would be a good idea.

Ray

[Glenn Woodward]

I don't think it's a good idea to have an unlimited number of backup files as the default.
Especially if you have an Autobackup option function that backups at a set time like Autosave - and I think this is the way that an Autobackup function should operate.

How about an option like "Max # of Sequential Backups".
So that when you reach the maximum number, the backups start overwriting (or just deleting ) the oldest backup file. This would alow you to have an option for unlimited backup files.

[Doug Park]

For now I think we are leaning toward "planname_archive" as the folder name. I think this conveys that it can be more than just backup files.

One of our support guys figured that this feature would make managing revisions easier.

At the moment the design leads to having the last save, the save before that and the last auto save as recent saves. Because the date resolution that I currently have in place is on a per day basis your backup history will then start stepping back a day at a time.

We will see how this works out and if other options like hourly, or more fine grained seem appropriate we may add them. The main idea here is to limit your losses in terms of time to recreate things without have so many files that it gets unmanageble.

As for the unbounded nature of this. One idea here is that a prefernce to remind you to backup your archived files would pop up when more than a certain number collected. At that point a browse button would open that folder allowing you to then copy, delete or otherwise manage these files using the tools built-in to windows.

Ideally, you would back up these files to a CD-ROM or other removable media so that you have an independent backup in case of catostrophic system failure. Our support guys hate the call that comes in when there were no backups and the hard drive has crashed beyond repair.

In any case none of this is written in stone. As we progress through the development cycle the design of this set of features is bound to change some.

The system as designed is very simple and reliable. In the past we have tried for more compilicated solutions that ended up failing in any number of ways and were a problem to maintain. Too many options make it hard to understand and increase the risk of failure.

The auto save feature would only generate one file. This is really here for catastrophic failure like a power outage or hopefully rare case in which Chief might actually crash.

[Glenn Woodward]

Doug,

Would't it be very simple to have:

Autosave - specify the autosave interval - this overwrites the existing file, same as a save.

Backup - specify the backup interval - this saves to separate backup files. The maximum # of sequential backups can be nominated.

Having backups work on a per day basis is meaningless. Some projects fly ahead and much, very detailed work can be completed in minutes or hours. Other jobs are a lot slower and may only need to be backed up daily (or less).

I am for having the backup interval and maximum number of backups under the control of the user.

AND, if you are going to use some form of date file naming, just be aware that no everone in the world uses date formats as per USA!

[Todd Smith]

Originally posted by Ray C

When you say, “daily history of backup files” do you mean each time we hit F3, Chief will add another backup file to this new folder. I hope so, this would give us the option of returning to many points during the day or even week if we are given the choice through program preferences.

That sounds like an 'AUTO SAVE AS" feature... that would get my vote!!!

[spencerdesign]

Doug,

What do you think about a separate subfolder for each day of backups? This would keep the file list in each subfolder more manageable, and easier to delete older files if desired after they are written to CDR. Personally, I manually backup 3 to 5 times a day, depending on activity, but I am thinking of my Design Partner for daily subfolders.

Sam

[cgirerd]

I am thrilled that you're going to implement a single plan file design. That will be a huge help on folder clutter.

As far as all the backup and autosave issues... I like the idea of the user having some control over the max number and timing of backups. As Glenn mentioned, some projects (or even the same project at different stages) need backups every hour or so, others every day. In my other program, I have Autosave set to every 15 minutes or so, and that works fine, but I believe the user can change the timing. In Chief I often save every 5 to 10 minutes, and save sequential backups about every hour. I.e. I start with MyPlan1. Then do a save as "MyPlan2" and continue working on MyPlan2, etc. Then I know the highest number is always my most recent file for that plan. The backup idea of a number of plans into a "Archive" folder could be an interesting option - but don't make it unlimited, please, unless the user requests it.

Thanks for hearing my two cents...
Christina

[mcqueenhomes]

I would like to see the autosave stay like it is, and add an auto-save-as, where I could specify beforehand where the file should go and how many to keep. I usually have a subdirectory for each project (it's still needed even if the plan only has one file because of the layouts and image files generated from rendering or photos) so I'd like the archives to be in a subfolder of the directory he plans are in:

The stuff I create:
C:\My Documents\My Houses\Melissa\
Melissa.cap (could be the C.hief A.rchitect P.lan)
Melissa_front.bmp
Melissa_kit.bmp
Melissa_foy.bmp (all renderings)
Melissa.la1 (layout file, may include things from elsewhere)

The stuff Chief creates for archives:
C:\My Documents\My Houses\Melissa\Melissa_Archive\
Melissa_01.cap
Melissa_02.cap
Melissa_03.cap

I like a simple sequential numbering system versus a date/time code. But then, if I'm willing to name a stock plan "Melissa" or something similar, you can take my suggestion with a grain of salt I guess.

[Todd Smith]

Sounds good Jason!

[mcqueenhomes]

Yeah, on second thought, though, if the archive is always a subdirectory of the one the plan is in and it's named planname_number.extension I guess it isn't essential that I would be able to specify where it goes (but I still want a say on how many are stored there).

[spencerdesign]

User defined settings will satisfy the diversity of opinions/work habits. I can see why implementing new features can be difficult for ART. Kudos on the single file for all floors. Sounds like that might solve other problems as well.

Sam