Hardware Guide for X3

[Barton Brown]

I am looking to improve my raytrace performance

I currently have:
i7 q720 1.6 ghz

Proposed pc:
i7 950 3.06ghz overclocked

will this make a big difference? are there diminishing returns on the system and raytrace speed? It seems like raytracing anything with lights takes forever.

thanks for your help!
jpremodeler

With X3, the extra RAM won't make a difference (32bit app so the ray trace engine is limited to 2 GB), the higher end video card isn't used for ray tracing. The SS HD might make a slight difference during the initial parsing of the model depending upon the size of the model.

Bottomline - I would expect to see about a 2x reduction in the ray trace time because your CPU's are running twice as fast. The rest of the items will have little effect on the ray tracing. Both CPUs are quad-core so the number of cpu's available for ray tracing will be the same.

If you want to compare CPUs, check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...icroprocessors

[jpremodeler]

With X3, the extra RAM won't make a difference (32bit app so the ray trace engine is limited to 2 GB), the higher end video card isn't used for ray tracing. The SS HD might make a slight difference during the initial parsing of the model depending upon the size of the model.

Bottomline - I would expect to see about a 2x reduction in the ray trace time because your CPU's are running twice as fast. The rest of the items will have little effect on the ray tracing. Both CPUs are quad-core so the number of cpu's available for ray tracing will be the same.

If you want to compare CPUs, check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...icroprocessors

Thanks Barton, so really what you are saying is the processor is the main factor, and that is where my money should go. I will probably stick with 7600 or 10,000 rpm hdd and spend more on the processor.

are 3-4 hours typical for a raytrace?

thanks again.

[Doug Park]

It's not quite that simple.

More memory means that the system can use it for a variety of things including disk caching. However, somewhere around 6-8GB more memory probably won't make any difference if you are primarily running Chief. Future versions of Chief will move to 64 bit, but if your models aren't any bigger more memory still won't make a difference.

The cpu cache is an important factor as well as memory speed. If you can't get the data to the cpu as fast as it can consume it a faster cpu won't help.

5 minutes to 1 day is a typical range for the time it takes to do a ray trace depending on the size, number of lights, and other settings like photons, with a minor contribution due to model size.

Do a very small ray trace to see how the lighting is and then if you like what you see fire off the higher resolution one.

Ray tracing is a class of problem that is extremely expensive. 2 decades ago it was pretty much relegated to the super computer realm. A decade ago ray tracing became feasible in hours or days on desktop computers and today we see it down to minutes and hours. A decade from now it will probably be in the range to be in the range of interactive graphics for many cases.

[jpremodeler]

It's not quite that simple.

More memory means that the system can use it for a variety of things including disk caching. However, somewhere around 6-8GB more memory probably won't make any difference if you are primarily running Chief. Future versions of Chief will move to 64 bit, but if your models aren't any bigger more memory still won't make a difference.

The cpu cache is an important factor as well as memory speed. If you can't get the data to the cpu as fast as it can consume it a faster cpu won't help.

5 minutes to 1 day is a typical range for the time it takes to do a ray trace depending on the size, number of lights, and other settings like photons, with a minor contribution due to model size.

Do a very small ray trace to see how the lighting is and then if you like what you see fire off the higher resolution one.

Ray tracing is a class of problem that is extremely expensive. 2 decades ago it was pretty much relegated to the super computer realm. A decade ago ray tracing became feasible in hours or days on desktop computers and today we see it down to minutes and hours. A decade from now it will probably be in the range to be in the range of interactive graphics for many cases.

Thanks Doug, I am a self taught Chief guy, but plan on taking some of the training classes to help improve my abilities (and hopefully speed. My sales dynamic requires me to put out conceptual views for clients in short turnaround, and i want to put the best images out in the time I have.

I am looking to have a pc primarily dedicated to x3 for now, so I can use my laptop to perform other tasks and let the program run.

I also want to make sure it will make sense to keep it when Chief goes 64bit.

I got the gist--cpu speed and cache are top, hard drive at 10,000 should be fine.

thanks!

[Barton Brown]

Just a heads-up regarding Sager laptops, at least the NP8760 model.

I purchased the laptop in October 2009, and by March 2010 the battery had bulged and was no longer functional. Since I was out of the USA at the time I waited until late May to return the battery to Sager. They confirmed the battery had failed and sent me a new battery. They also suggested that it might be the charging circuit that caused the battery to fail, but before I sent in the laptop, we would try a new battery. Well, the second battery has failed - a strong indicator that the problem really was the charging circuit. Unfortunately for me, it failed outside the year warranty period.

Sager's response to my problem didn't even address the charging circuit as a potential failure, I quote:
"Hi Barton, unfortunately, the battery failed after the manufacturer warranty has expired. At this point, your option is to order an new battery.

Sorry about that."

I'll keep pushing on this but wanted to warn potential buyers that there could be a design/manufacturing problem with some of the Sager laptops, and that Sager's response to an ongoing warranty issue leaves a lot of room for improvement.

Clearly, this is the last Sager laptop I'm going to own.

[Thane Pearson]

My last Sager would repeatedly overheat and shut down without warning. It's relegated to paper weight status.

[PhoenixConstruction]

Thanks Barton, I've always been a Sager user myself, but this incident gives me pause.

[Barton Brown]

Thane and George, fortunately for me (unlike Thane's problem), the actual laptop works OK as long as it is plugged into the wall outlet, so it is not completely dead. Does however reduce its usefulness as a mobile computing device.

[moodjick]

Hi, I am looking at buying a new computer to run the premier x3 and I was wondering if you could advise on a couple specific machines currently on the market. I understand the system requirements but I am a little over whelmed by the options. Also what size screen would you recommend ( was considering the HP Performance ZR30w30" LCD Monitor).
Thank you.

[Allen Brown]

My advice,

Get the best NVidia gaming card you can afford, that has the features I will mention in a second, but do not run dual cards in SLI, if you are going to run multiple monitors.. Windows 7 FOR SURE, I-7 proccessor definitely, 980 Extreme Edition, if money is no object (it's an extremely fast proccessor).

As far as monitors go, 22" would be the minimum, 24" would be better, 30" would be extreme in my opinion, but my eyes are still really good. I will never again run Chief with one monitor, so make sure you don't price your monitors to where you can only afford one. Run Chief on one monitor, move the Chief library, email, web browser & picture editor to the second monitor. Again, if money is no object, run a 30" monitor in the center, and a pair of 22's on either side. Which of course means you need to plan ahead and make sure your video card will run 2 or 3 monitors. If running 3 monitors (like I am), you might need two video cards. If you are going to occaisonally run Chief (or other internet like instantly streaming movies from net flicks) on a 52" TV in the next room, make sure you have a video card that has an HDMI port. An HDMI port will carry both video & sound. DANG IT, now I want to upgrade my machine!

Hope that's helpful!

[jbt]

I just ordered a pc built to my specs from Cyberpower PC.
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/

In reading their reviews it seems there were a mixed bag of reviews. Overall were good but some complained of less then perfect QC. I figured that I knew enough to fix something should it not be perfect.

In the end, I got a deal that no other site could come within $300 of. The computer got here faster then expected, everything installed right and the insides looked put together well.

I had them do a mild overclock on it for $20which turned my i7 950 into the equivalent 960 (which is a $250 jump in processor cost). I went with an upgraded liquid cooler though ($30)

They offered a free upgrade of 1333 memory to 1600.

I just missed a GREAT special which is running now. They are offering a free upgrade to a GTX480 from a Gtx470. (I got the 470) Again this is (again a $200value)

Long story short...I got a VERY fast PC built well shipped for $1500. (monitor not incl)

I am running a 24 and a 17 both off the GTX470 with no issues what so ever.

I did have one issue. The logitech cordless keyboard I ordered with it quit working after the first day. I called tech support and they are shipping out a new one and told me to exchange it on the box which will have a return shipping paid label. Very good service.


Windows experience rating on the computer specs out at:
(1.0 being lowest and 7.9 the highest possible)

Processor 7.7
Memory 7.6
Graphics 7.7
Gaming Graphics 7.7
Hard disk 5.9

I almost went with a solid state HD for a boot drive but just wanted to keep it simple for now. I have plenty of room in the case should I want to do it.

I feel overall that I got a lot of computer for the money.

[Pat1217]

I just ordered a pc built to my specs from Cyberpower PC.
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/

In reading their reviews it seems there were a mixed bag of reviews. Overall were good but some complained of less then perfect QC. I figured that I knew enough to fix something should it not be perfect.

In the end, I got a deal that no other site could come within $300 of. The computer got here faster then expected, everything installed right and the insides looked put together well.

I had them do a mild overclock on it for $20which turned my i7 950 into the equivalent 960 (which is a $250 jump in processor cost). I went with an upgraded liquid cooler though ($30)

They offered a free upgrade of 1333 memory to 1600.

I just missed a GREAT special which is running now. They are offering a free upgrade to a GTX480 from a Gtx470. (I got the 470) Again this is (again a $200value)

Long story short...I got a VERY fast PC built well shipped for $1500. (monitor not incl)

I am running a 24 and a 17 both off the GTX470 with no issues what so ever.

I did have one issue. The logitech cordless keyboard I ordered with it quit working after the first day. I called tech support and they are shipping out a new one and told me to exchange it on the box which will have a return shipping paid label. Very good service.


Windows experience rating on the computer specs out at:
(1.0 being lowest and 7.9 the highest possible)

Processor 7.7
Memory 7.6
Graphics 7.7
Gaming Graphics 7.7
Hard disk 5.9

I almost went with a solid state HD for a boot drive but just wanted to keep it simple for now. I have plenty of room in the case should I want to do it.

I feel overall that I got a lot of computer for the money.

I'd like to hear how your Cyberpower is doing in a few months. You're probably luckier than I was.

Looks like you got a great deal. I didn't fare so well. My CyberPower was $1300.00 for Windows 7 Pro, i7 920 GHZ, 6GB Ram, 64 bit, Nvideo GeForce GTS 250. I could use a better graphics card and I need more ram. I got it Jan 2010.

The problem I had with my Cyberpower was in the first 3 months. After a few months my power supply pooped out so I put another one in. It pooped out again after another couple of months so I upgraded to a bigger power supply but it didn't come with screws. Come to find out, they send refurbished replacements instead of new.

The casing I got is just plain cheap. I mean like made out of tin cheap. The power ports feel like they are made out of heavy aluminum foil when I stick in a usb plug.

I don't know much about computers so you have the upper hand if something goes wrong.

Pat

[moodjick]

Thank you all, this is really helpful. Allen, what do you think about a motherboard for the i7-980x?

[Allen Brown]

I'm not sure what the current recomended MOBO for the 980X is, but if you go to www.TigerDirect.com, you can either look it up, or just call them. Tell them you want to know what MOBO's go with the 980X, and they'll tell you. If they think you might buy from them, they will tell you anything you need to know. I will even sometimes talk to them, get the entire computer setup placed into the "cart", then I can print it out and have it for a reference when shopping somewhere else. This will also give you an idea if you are paying someone too much to assemble it the way you want it.

[jbt]

I'd like to hear how your Cyberpower is doing in a few months. You're probably luckier than I was.

...... After a few months my power supply pooped out so I put another one in. It pooped out again after another couple of months ......

The casing I got is just plain cheap. I mean like made out of tin cheap. .....
Pat

Pat,

I had read before about power supply issues. Keeping that in mind, I went with a bigger 800watt unit. I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed....but if it goes at some point, I dont mind swapping it.

As for the case, I went with a highly reviewed gaming Azza Hurrican case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-010-_-Product

I am really impressed with the quality. This thing is built like a tank and has 8 built in fans and is super quiet.

I am far from an expert, but in making my selections what I did was search most of the components on Newegg or the web for reviews. This also prompted me to switch to a different motherboard then the one they specd.

Overall, I must say I am pretty happy (so far)....but my word of warning is they will build any order you send them....good or bad. In the shopping process, I tried to call tech support to get some advice on a few things, and they really did not seem to be in the business of offering advice. I then had to dive in and learn a little, and ask some questions of some of my friends kids .