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Thread: Design vs. engineering question
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04-02-2011, 02:59 PM #16
I'm assuming most of you guys are either designers, or builders (not architects or engineers or you would be using AutoDesk products).
This is not a good assumption....
There are many architects and engineers who use chief
LewLew Buttery
Castle Golden Design - "We make dreams visible"
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04-02-2011, 03:47 PM #17Registered User Promoted
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04-02-2011, 04:11 PM #18
Geez, I cant understand why your question was so difficult for people to address. You are engaging the services of an engineer. You want to know how much of the drawings are your responsiblity and how much are his. My suggestion, have a meeting with your engineer and decide between you what works the best for your situation, or what he expects from your drawings.
Rod Kervin
Kervin Home Design
Courtenay BC
p. 250-871-0316
If a picture is worth a thousand words, and a video is worth a thousand pictures, then uploading the chief file is worth a thousand videos.
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04-02-2011, 04:18 PM #19Registered User Promoted
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Rod,
Thank you, that would be e great place for me to start.Michael
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04-02-2011, 04:24 PM #20My question is, how far do you as a designer take the plans before passing them to an engineer?
Ooops, I should say I eschew ordering truss calcs and Title-24 until engineering comes back.... those items are typically a formality.
Did I answer your question?D. Scott Hall (The Bridge Troll)
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04-02-2011, 04:46 PM #21Windows 7
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Micheal
You did make it clear that you were going to use an engineer!
Did you read that Richard?ELDON
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04-02-2011, 04:47 PM #22
Michael:
I am a designer/drafter and do plans for builders and remodelers and occassionaly homeowners who are acting as their own GC
I can't and won't sign/submit permits
Usually the client wants the "minimal" done to get the county to grant the permit
for some counties this is very minimal, for others there are more requirements
many states allow us to create our pages and then the engineer/architect will create their pages, if needed
we combine as one package, and the client signs/submits the permit set
our contract states that we are NOT architects or engineers and that the client is responsible
for ensuring that the structural aspects of the design are proper
our contract states that every line on our drawings is there per the specs and direction of the client
tho in practice, we do create drawings and they are suppose to review them
our contract states that if the client prints the permit set then they have reviewed it and found it acceptable
the architects/engineers will only sign/stamp the parts/pages they create they do not sign/stamp our pages
some states will not allow us to work in this manner as EVERY page must be created/signed/stamped by the architect/engineer
in those states we can only do concept designs for 2D and 3D
and not create any permit sets at all
LewLew Buttery
Castle Golden Design - "We make dreams visible"
Lockport, NY
716-434-5051
www.castlegoldendesign.com
lbuttery at castlegoldendesign.com
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04-02-2011, 05:08 PM #23Registered User Promoted
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Scott and Lew,
Your answers are both very helpful. Thank you for understanding my question. I'm sure over time I'll figure out how it works best around here, its just nice to have an idea of how everyone else is doing it.Michael
Chief Architect X3-X6
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04-02-2011, 05:52 PM #24
Eldon,
This is what he said: "I just think most details neither my subs nor myself need to see on plans. Its only local codes that require those details and ask for an engineers stamp"
Whether the OP draws the details or the engineer draws the details is between the OP and the engineer. The point is that in an area of high seismic risk, any builder who believes that he and his subs don't really need any of that detailed engineering is putting the public at greater risk.Richard
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Richard Morrison
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04-02-2011, 06:16 PM #25Windows 7
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Alaskan son,
I like that name! Welcome!
You did not start the Builder "aint" using no Engineer discussion, there have been many heated discussions in the past.
Perhaps it started when some residential builder new to the forum asks something like "What does an architect actually do" or "What good are Architects"? something like that.... This is where the discovery of just how many Architects are using Chief, is disclosed.... And this is where we as builders discover just how ignorant we really are... About everything... including "Who is your daddy" type of stuff... :Sly:
I would not want to embarrass any Architects here by disclosing their names but I have befriended one or two... They are actually, not so bad... I am grateful for their advice and experience!
But, come on Richard....Yeah, sure you do... There's nothing like years of cutting and nailing wood to give someone an accurate idea of how a structure will perform in an earthquake.
Crap that! Your obviously the one that has not used a Residential Engineer in Alaska, Colorado or Wyoming?ELDON
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04-02-2011, 07:01 PM #26Rod Kervin
Kervin Home Design
Courtenay BC
p. 250-871-0316
If a picture is worth a thousand words, and a video is worth a thousand pictures, then uploading the chief file is worth a thousand videos.
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04-02-2011, 07:04 PM #27Registered User Promoted
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Richard,
I made the above statement that you quoted based on what I believe is required of general design work. As far as general design work is concerned, a house can be built from basic layouts and elevations. My point was not that I don't think we need engineering. My point was that at some point it stops being a designers responsibility and becomes an engineers responsibility. I was just concerned about charging my client fairly. I don't want to take a whole lot of extra time drawing up details when it should rightly fall under the responsibilities of an engineer.
You probably aren't fully understanding what I'm saying because it seems you are a licensed architect and don't have to regularly outsource all engineering. Its something you've worked hard for I'm sure, but as a builder there are lines we have to understand. You are probably more likely to draw up everything you possibly can because it falls under your responsibility. I'm not licensed to be responsible for engineering so I don't want to take it any further than I have to. Especially because an engineer has to go over the plans anyway.Michael
Chief Architect X3-X6
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04-02-2011, 07:09 PM #28
Scott has it right. Complete the drawing with details and calcs. Refer to engineer to verify and recommend options or additional notes. The engineer may not understand your intent without a complete plan. Autodesk doesn't help with engineering or construction docs to any better degree than Chief or other cad drafting programs.
Last edited by Thane Pearson; 04-02-2011 at 07:12 PM.
Thane Pearson CPBD, AIBD, LEED AP
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04-02-2011, 07:10 PM #29Windows 7
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We love you anyways Richard... ya grumpy ol duffer!
ELDON
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04-02-2011, 07:15 PM #30
Complete the drawing with details and calcs. Refer to engineer to verify and recommend options or additional notes. The engineer may not understand your intent without a complete plan.
Thane:
Hmmm...
any engineer worth his license would not want to use another's drawings
the engineers I worked with did site visits and made their own drawings
they used mine for "guidance of intent" only
LewLew Buttery
Castle Golden Design - "We make dreams visible"
Lockport, NY
716-434-5051
www.castlegoldendesign.com
lbuttery at castlegoldendesign.com
CHIEF X5 (started with v9.5)