chief vs. 20-20 Design

[bkbw]

I've been using Chief Architect for almost one year. I am a kitchen designer and I do
high-end, highly customized kitchen designs. I've found Chief beneficial, but difficult to do
more technical, custom cabinets. It's good for a 3d picture, but not as convenient as Auto cad
for shop, detail drawings.
I still have a lot to learn, but I'm wondering if I should switch to 20-20 Design. It's more money,
but it seems to be geared more towards kitchen design. Does anyone out there know the benefits of
one to the other?

[Joe Carrick]

My understanding is that 20-20 is really a Cabinet Design and Detailing Product. If you need to produce shop drawings for the cabinets then that's probably a tool you should have in your bag. OTOH, if you work with quality Cabinet Shops then you can let them produce whatever drawings and CNC output that they need themselves. I know several custom shops that have 20-20 or Cabinet Vision.

As an Architect I always design the Kitchen and Baths myself. I provide enough detail to show the Cabinet Shop what I want but the Shop Drawings, etc are provided by the Shop.

[Alaskan Son]

the majority of the design work we do is custom kitchens and my experience is similar to Joe's. My cabinet shop always does their own drawings. Unless you use an actual cabinet construction software, you're drawings are only good as a basic representation to most custom cabinet shops. And I believe 20-20 is NOT a good tool for custom cabinet design. 20-20's real strength is in its connection with manufacturer catalogs. Unless you're purchasing cabinets from one of those manufacturers, I think Chief is a much better bet.

[PhoenixConstruction]

I am a kitchen designer as well, and we design high end kitchens. I would suggest that unless a designer knows all of the intricacies of cabinet construction, the relationship of the hardware, relativity of the appliances, limitations of box construction, etc., then it may be better to just design the face of it, and what outcome you want, and let the cabinet shop do the final design [for review]. The reason comes down primarily to a liability issue. If you do every specific detail, and the cabinet shop builds it accordingly, then you're on the hook for a re-do. If the designer collaborates with the shop, then the outcome will be much more predictable, and of less consequence to the project schedule.

[EDIT]
That is of course, if you're ordering full custom cabinetry.

[Alaskan Son]

I checked out that Sketchlist. You pretty much have to construct your piece of furniture (or cabinet) from scratch. Not very efficient for kitchens. Might be okay for custom furniture pieces or ultra custom built in cabinet units, but doesn't look like an efficient kitchen design program.

[Alaskan Son]

Reed, just sent you a PM

[bkbw]

Thank you for the helpful advice.
I am curious as to whether Chief's 3D capabilities match up to those of 20-20 Design.
Which of the two can create a more custom, realistic looking kitchen?
I've viewed pictures of both and haven't been able to see much of a difference.

Jerred

Burton Kitchen and Bath Works
burtonworks.com

[Gene Davis]

What are some of the characteristics, details, whatever, that makes these high-end, highly-customized kitchen packages so challenging, drawings-wise?

And what exactly is meant by "shop drawings?" How do they differ from what is shown in Chief's sample documents, all those kitchen plans, elevations, and section details?

If it is time to build, I use eCabinets.

[MarkMc]

I'm a kitchen designer and have both. Some time ago I. Posted a comparison of the two on here so you might want to search it.

The short version is 2020 Design will do pricing on many mfg catalogs if you sell the brand and they support it. (my two better custom brands don't) They have another product specifically for shop drawings but my understanding is your better off with Cabinet Vision or the like.

Chief does better working drawings for design purposes and installation. I do a lot of custom and only use 2020 for quick easy pricing. I did make the mistake of buying the Interiors version (or letting them sell it to me ;-) so I often have to export some things to CAD. Still within CA it is possible to draw much more of what I need to give a maker for order, in custom, than I can in 2020.