Beach House

[HumbleChief]

Val,

Have you ever encountered a 'breakaway' CMU wall similar to the wall I described in a post above? In this case there were no cross braces that were as visible as your example above. I found the technique fascinating.

Here's a link to breakaway walls.

http://www.fema.gov/media-library-da.../fema_tb_9.pdf

[HumbleChief]

More info that might help. Quite an interesting read.

"While it is possible to drive pilings to support the elevated structure, a poured-in-place concrete structure proves more effective for both aesthetics and security. My engineer employed a clever scheme using 16-inch-square concrete flue blocks as piers, filled with concrete and rebar, topped with a grid of concrete beams (Figure 1)."

http://www.jlconline.com/coastal-con...solutions.aspx

I Googled "breakaway cmu wall coastal construction" many more links and info.

[VHampton]

Thanks for posting that Larry.

Yes indeed regarding breakaway walls. Should the tides rise and send small waves against the house, the walls below the first floor are intended to give way rather than try and resist. Technically the area under the house is meant for storage only. Things like a garage or lawn stuff is what people typically keep down there.

As you pointed out, some homes have concrete piers but it should be noted that concrete takes a beating from salt water over the long run. When we build houses closer inland in what's deemed a flood zone (not a velocity zone)....then the pilings aren't required as per that link. But the house has to be designed in such a way that the foundation won't cave in from hydrostatic pressure. Each side of the home requires openings so that water can pass through the building. That's where you'll see the concrete supports in greater use. Those homes are most likely in a standard flood zone (AE) where wave action is much different than rolling breakers coming in from the ocean (VE).

Unfortunately for the Sandy victims, many people had homes whose first floors were below the base flood elevation. The utilities were completely swamped when the water levels came in. The home improvements now being made mandate that everyone has a first floor high above the expected flood waters when the storms roll through.

Our part of the island had a storm in 1938 which arrived with only 80 mph hour winds but the surge came in with a twenty foot wave and brought parts of the mainland under four feet over water as far as several miles away from the coast. It's pretty scary what these things can do.

[HumbleChief]

Great info Val - hope it helps the OP in some way.

[rgfeher]

Great post Val

As you pointed out - the area with the breakaway walls is not meant for other than storage of some kind - certainly not meant for any type of permanent/living space
The whole purpose would be defeated otherwise
Beakaway walls are a cosmetic feature basically, though offer protection from normal weather to the area underneath

[JJohnson]

I am designing a beach house that is supported on wood columns. The underside of the framing will be about 8' above the concrete parking pad. The area that the house is going to be built is a 160 mph wind load area. Any ideas on how to frame in the floor structure to the wood columns?

This is how our engineer solved a beam to pole connection on my current project.

[VHampton]

Great post Val

Thanks Randy. Glad to share whatever may be helpful. I enjoy construction talk as the framing phases are my favorite part of any project.


Some people can't imagine the wind forces involved unless they were to picture their house being placed onto the back of tractor trailer where it would go trucking down the road at highway speeds. Believe it or not, the metal strapping method makes a huge difference in keeping the structure in one piece.

Either way, high wind codes require the same method of securing a wood frame on a concrete foundation project as it does with the wood pile supports. Sustained winds of 160 miles would be considered very rare. But a constant wind speed of 60mph (and higher) is common during a hurricane. It's something that any house should be able to withstand if it's built 2 x 6(s) and 1/2"cdx sheathing with the proper nailing and tie downs.

Here's a sample of what we have to show our local building departments. Every rafter, stud, and joist is strapped continuously down to the foundation.

[Curtis Johnson]

On Saturday a.m. This Old House featured many New Jersey rebuild projects along the coast including one with break-away CMU walls between the piles (and individually filled with EPS insulation blocks) ... and they were even facing these walls with stone. Sure hope the next Sandy is many years in the future as the project owners were spending (or the insurance?) on this particular project.

[Justice]

I am designing a beach house that is supported on wood columns. The underside of the framing will be about 8' above the concrete parking pad. The area that the house is going to be built is a 160 mph wind load area. Any ideas on how to frame in the floor structure to the wood columns?

Yes we get lots of those types of houses here in Australia and I have seen books on them.

Try Googling "Pole Frame houses" as they are called down under.

Yes Structural Engineer is the way to go.

All the best.

[Bradley Boltz]

I am designing a beach house that is supported on wood columns. The underside of the framing will be about 8' above the concrete parking pad. The area that the house is going to be built is a 160 mph wind load area. Any ideas on how to frame in the floor structure to the wood columns?

Larry,

I don't know what your level of design expertise is but I can't imagine that one could design a coastal home for permits that would have anything less than a full set of sealed architectural and engineering plans. Your foundation will have to be engineered to meet all the coastal wind and storm surge requirements and the rest of the house will have to adhere to a much stricter code than you are probably accustomed to. Have you spoken with any of the local coastal builders that might be bidding on this job? I wouldn't be comfortable designing a beach house without previous experience in that genre (within an experienced coastal firm) or without hiring a consultant (both structural and architectural). Besides wind and waves you have to consider finishes that can withstand constant exposure in that environment, etc.-BB

[VHampton]

Thanks for posting that information Curtis.

They have a link to that particular episode. Break away CMU wall construction is shown at the 8:50 mark.

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tv/v...752309,00.html

[HumbleChief]

Larry,

I don't know what your level of design expertise is but I can't imagine that one could design a coastal home for permits that would have anything less than a full set of sealed architectural and engineering plans. Your foundation will have to be engineered to meet all the coastal wind and storm surge requirements and the rest of the house will have to adhere to a much stricter code than you are probably accustomed to. Have you spoken with any of the local coastal builders that might be bidding on this job? I wouldn't be comfortable designing a beach house without previous experience in that genre (within an experienced coastal firm) or without hiring a consultant (both structural and architectural). Besides wind and waves you have to consider finishes that can withstand constant exposure in that environment, etc.-BB

Hi Bradley,

I seem to have entered an alternate reality where I am posting words and ideas that are being read in a language I'm not familiar with.

Or maybe you're reading the responses to my posts without actually reading my posts? I went back and read my posts and can't find a single word, phrase or even an implication that I would try and pursue a project like the OP wants built with "anything less than a full set of sealed architectural and engineering plans."

I'm genuinely curious, what gave you the idea that I thought otherwise?

I even posted FEMA documentation outlining the proper breakaway design criteria and code specific details that need to be adhered to, said clearly that, "of course you need an engineer to size and spec everything."

You're actually the third person who is suggesting that I said or think this project should be done without an engineer so clearly I'm not writing clearly enough or you're not reading clearly enough. Again I'm genuinely curious.

And of course I agree 100 % that a project like this needs and engineer who is familiar with type of building, but as I said in an earlier post, this seems really obvious.

[HumbleChief]

Thanks for posting that information Curtis.

They have a link to that particular episode. Break away CMU wall construction is shown at the 8:50 mark.

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tv/v...752309,00.html

That's the episode I was referring to in an earlier post... Still find it fascinating.

And hey that design looks really simple - Wouldn't need an architect or an engineer - I bet a couple buddies could figure that design out over a couple beers

[HumbleChief]

I saw what looked like galvanized columns with post caps and corner column wrapped with ??? couldn't tell what - any ideas?

[Bradley Boltz]

Geez Larry(Hawes), I was referring to the OP(original poster who's name is Larry C(rumholtz?), Now I'm fixing it again-I meant to direct it to Michael Crump-Senior Moment Alert!

Now I know where you are coming from but I didn't reference or contradict anything you've posted. I was directing my commentary towards the Original Poster who's work I've seen over the years on Chief and as I recall he does nice work. I'm coming from the perspective of an architectural designer who "studied" architecture for 5yrs at Va Tech and never finished my thesis. I've worked for some architects over the years and worked a lot of residential construction (jack of all trades, master at none) and have been doing freelance architectural design for private clients and some local Berks County builders since 1997. With all my experience, I wouldn't know how to properly design a beach house on the coast.

The way the OP asked the question regarding how to connect to a coastal piling foundation system tells me that he has no experience with building a beach house. Guiding him to all the necessary FEMA documentation, codes etc will not give him all that's necessary to design such a house. I'm saying that there's no substitute for having done that type of work and that I would consult with those who have. There are coastal builders, architects and engineers who have an abundance of experience designing and building structures along the coast and they are the one's that know how to build there. Obviously, Larry C (the OP) can learn how to do it but I wouldn't hire an inexperienced (in regards to beach houses) residential designer who's going to have to get someone to seal his architecturals as well as hiring someone to create a set of structural drawings (I'm assuming here as I have no idea what the local municipality for this project will be requiring from a construction document point of view).

All that said, there's all the other aspects that you and everyone's been posting, such as break-a-way lower walls, the durability of concrete and rebar in a salt environment, exterior finishes, salt resistant fasteners and hardware and everything else necessary to properly build a beach house. I don't go out and try to do commercial architecture on my own, as I don't have the experience necessary to properly design it-except maybe tenant fit outs and very light commercial projects that I could do back during the L&I submittal days in Pa prior to the IBC when I didn't need to get drawings sealed.

I just now figured out that you thought I was referring to you "Larry" in my quote and went back and modified the beginning of this post so now I understand your angst and confusion over my original commentary. Basically, I was agreeing with everything being said by all and just adding my perspective. Enjoy the rest of you California day, it's now dark here in Shillington, Pa.-Brad

PS I got the name of the OP messed up since I couldn't refer to it when Posting- this whole thing was meant to be directed to Michael Crump the Bluegrass Wizard.