Deck over a non-deck room

[Levis]

In this plan I'm working on, I have a deck over a sunken basement entry. I got tired of seeing the "Deck is over a non deck room. Framing may not be correct" pop-up every time I open up the plan, so I thought I'd change it to a balcony and just change the name back to 'deck'. Now I got rid of the pop-up, but in elevation and 3D views, the balcony has no floor system, even though one is specified... Why isn't showing? Do I have to build the floor framing? Or how would you guys handle this deck over a non deck room situation?

[David J. Potter]

Give it all the charismatics of a Deck but just do not name the room "Deck" will work to eliminate the idiot "error" message, as long as it is not named deck, in terms of the software, it isn't.

DJP

[Bradley Boltz]

Thanks for that consise and redeeming reply David. I always suspected that that "Idiot Message" was user error (at least according to reply I would expect from those San Diegan Power Users!). Can't you just tell it to not give the message via that radio button option in some messages? I can't remember.-BB

[dshall]

Come to think of it, why don't you call it a balcony?. I think if you call it a deck you get the 2x6 decking.

[Levis]

Thanks for the replies guys.

@David: I tried your suggestion... didn't work for me! I kept the room type as a deck but changed the name to something else, but I still get the idiot error message. Did I understand correctly?

@Bradley: Yes, you can click on 'Do not show this message...' when the pop-up comes up, but that only shuts it up for that session. Close and re-open and it's back... I want to shut it up for good!

@Scott: That's what I tried first, but then my deck joists disappeared. When I specify the room type as a balcony, do I need to build its floor framing?

[Glenn Woodward]

There is a setting in the Deck tab - Keep Deck Framing After Deck Room is Deleted.
It may help to check this and then change the room type to something other than Deck.

[Bradley Boltz]

I don't understand why Chief cares what room's beneath a deck. Typically there isn't anything other than possibly a patio or just dirt with a weed barrier and some crushed stone to hold it in place. Chief has a similar issue with a slab on grade and tries to place a floor below.

Can anyone from Chief chime in and explain the rational for this to be an issue at this advanced stage (x5) of the programs evolution. More importantly, can they tell us what we should be doing(besides a work-around) to resolve the problem? Thanks, Brad

[mgabriel]

What type of walls did you use for the retaining walls. I bet if you go to the basement level and click the area under the deck, there is a room defined by your walls. That's where the error message is coming from. Try making the retaining walls "no room definition" in the room dbx and see if that helps.

[dshall]

Come on guys, this is nutty. CA is doing you a favor. Ca is telling you that if you define the room as a deck, they are going to put 2x6 decking down for the deck, it is porous, it will leak, CA is advising you not to use this. If you want a waterproof deck, call it a balcony and all will be well, you will not get the DECK OVER ROOM ALERT.

[Joe Carrick]

There are defaults for Decks that include Framing, Planking, etc. You can set those defaults. Decks are expected to be built above the ground with their own foundation/floor system.

Balconies are hard coded to default to solid flooring and I believe a solid railing wall. They do not have ceilings or roofs and there is no "Default Settings" to modify. If you want something different, you have to specify it in the Room dbx and Wall dbx.

For the Balcony Floor Structure you have to use "Build Floor Framing". This is no different than for any other room (except Decks, Garages, Porches and any other "Slab" Room).

[Levis]

What type of walls did you use for the retaining walls. I bet if you go to the basement level and click the area under the deck, there is a room defined by your walls. That's where the error message is coming from. Try making the retaining walls "no room definition" in the room dbx and see if that helps.

Genius! That's the perfect (and easiest) solution in this case.

EDIT: I lose the slab in the sunken entry by doing so. Guess I'll add the slab via the slab tool.

EDIT 2: CRAP! The terrain rebuilt and now it goes through that area instead of stopping at the retaining walls. I guess there's no super-quick-easy method to do what I want! Retain deck framing didn't work either.

As for those who are debating why Chief warns us, I can see certain cases where this could be useful, such as if a portion of the actual basement extends under the deck. Then, as Scott alluded to, the gaps between the 2x6 planks would create a leak in the basement. That being said though, there are several instances where the warning is unnecessary (sunken entry, storage under a deck, 2nd storey deck with a patio/slab underneath, etc.).

Maybe the warning is good in the HD versions, but in the premier version, we should have the option of telling Chief "hey, that's what I want. I know what I'm doing!!!". In this particular case, I want the deck framing. To make it leak proof, I just added a 1/8" layer for my vinyl decking membrane. I still have the planking underneath, which in reality would just be plywood sheathing, but I adjusted the planking thickness, and I'm not doing a material take-off from these plans, so who cares! The edging is not perfect either, but I can live with that.

[mgabriel]

There is a terrain feature to allow a flat area in the terrain. Use that inside your retaining walls, then place the slab. Terrains are a little finicky in Chief. Oftentimes, less is more....a little patience will go along way.

[Bradley Boltz]

Ok Scott, point well taken. But, the alert says "Deck over a non-Deck Room". What the heck then is a "Deck Room"?-BB

[Levis]

There is a terrain feature to allow a flat area in the terrain. Use that inside your retaining walls, then place the slab. Terrains are a little finicky in Chief. Oftentimes, less is more....a little patience will go along way.

I know I could do that. I just meant that by the time I specify the retaining walls to be 'No Room Def.', add a slab, then a terrain feature/hole/elevation region, I might as well just use the balcony room type in the first place and build my floor framing manually. Both approaches take about the same time. I ended up going with the latter and getting my 'plank overhang' by adding a molding around the edge of the balcony.

I still wish we had the option of just telling Chief we just want to build the deck above a non-deck room without getting a constant reminder about it. Like having a checkbox in the deck Room Dbx that you could check 'room under this deck' or something. Then you could spec whatever waterproofing you want to use in the floor assembly, but the floor framing could still be automatic like a normal deck, except we could choose a sheet material instead of planking if we wanted to. And the pop-up could then be 'You specified a deck room over a non-deck room. Is this want you want?' Click yes and it would automatically check the 'room under this deck' option and not bother you again!

[dshall]

Ok Scott, point well taken. But, the alert says "Deck over a non-Deck Room". What the heck then is a "Deck Room"?-BB

BB, I don't understand what a lot of things CA does mean, and I never thought about this particular definition means, but I do know that CA thinks I am doing something wrong when I do it. These guys try their best, they just can't eliminate all the little picadillos, but then who can?