Next version of CA

[Kilgore Trout]

I think we will all pretty much have to wait and see what X6 has in it before we can decide. If all it has is the ability to run on a mac, most people probably won't be very happy. But if it has just as many new features as X5 did (and hopefully even more), then I think most people will be happy even if it took a little longer.

No matter what new features there are in X6, I'm pretty sure that Ron will not ever be happy!

[perryh]

Chief has never let me down in the past with upgrades, they have all saved me more time

[lbuttery]

know Vectorworks started simply offering their version of SSA that comes with the software. Meaning there is no upfront purchase of the app, but if someone stops the yearly service they don't get to continue using the product

Johnny:

I wouldn't like this at all

I also disagree that experienced users can't continue to find value in the training etc

I seriously doubt it is possible to know "everything" and remember it "forever"

I am sure there are times when a user might not need to use terrain or cabinets etc
for many projects

then finally one of those projects comes along again

etc etc etc

I believe that SSA is a wonderful bargin as is

sure I would love it if CA even threw "more" into the pot

but at $395 SSA is a bargin

Lew

[lbuttery]

And what about future SSA updates? CA will still be engineering for 2 OS's and need additional resources for that effort as well. Will there be enough engineers and staff to handle those future updates in a timely manner? And of course what is a "timely manner?"

Larry:

this is my concern also

I have a feeling that both platforms may suffer

without sufficient dedicated resources

Lew

[Ron Ravenscroft]

And what about future SSA updates? CA will still be engineering for 2 OS's and need additional resources for that effort as well. Will there be enough engineers and staff to handle those future updates in a timely manner? And of course what is a "timely manner?"

Larry:

this is my concern also




I have a feeling that both platforms may suffer

without sufficient dedicated resources

Lew

Larry forget about features that should already be part of the program. Like schedules that work without work-a-rounds.
I'm ready for a dongle and forget about the MAC version. Users be ****ed, PC users that have supported you for 25 years forget about it.

[Doug Park]

I've said this before, but it bears repeating.

The result of porting to Mac is a significant improvement in the UI. Better toolbars, tabbed windows, excellent multiple monitor support, improved dialogs to name a few.

We also have a set of additional improvements to the program that in my opinion make the X5 release look weak.

Supporting multiple operating systems after the porting is done boils down to possibly 1/2 a man year per release at the most. This means that all the extra people we brought on board to help with the port will be almost entirely diverted to doing other improvements for X7.

It also means that we will be able to more easily step up to supporting all of your mobile devices in the future.

And it means a higher quality more stable application. Just yesterday we found a bug in some code that has been in Chief for as long as I've been working here that could cause random crashes on Windows, but always crashed on Mac. We have found several cases like this that have measurably improved the stability of the program on Windows simply because we are making it work on Mac.

While you may not ever use a Mac, the result of this support will most definitely improve your Windows experience.

[johnnyprc]

I do think CA is better served as a company providing a Mac version, so even if I don't currently use Mac (actually switched to PC when I moved to CA and Lumion) I do realize the importance to CA...smart business decision. Just the true dual screen support alone would be worth $500 to me - so I do think X6 will "worthwhile".

Lew: The SSA from Vectorworks is an option - so a user can still buy the app the old fashion way. That said, I personally like that idea (fee per year) since it would allow me to add a license of CA in my office as I needed - without being locked into a purchase. If CA offered for a second SSA the ability to get another license by paying dual SSA (or however many licenses someone needs x SSA) I would be all over that. My employee count could fluxuate and I just get a $400 SSA to keep an extra seat as needed - that would be very appealing to me. For CA it would keep revenue coming in more steadily, and MOST software companies that sell expensive apps are moving to this format. Right now I buy the Adobe Creative Suite for $50 per month (x2) even though I owed previous upgradable versions. Same thing with MS Office 365 - $120 per year (5 seats).

The advantage to that system is there is very little piracy since users interconnect with the servers at the respective software companies virtually each time the app opens. I've seen several downloads of CA X4, X5 for free download (cracked) when I do general searches....so I know CA must lose a lot of money with those types of users.

Look at what I just read on a torrent download site for X5: (I hope they don't let people get SSA without a legal copy of CA)

anarchy80 at 2012-12-22 19:26 CET:

installed great and works fine on windows 7 64bit running in boot camp on imac. only thing i need is an ssa that allows me to download the other catalogs from chief anyone have a working ssa or a link to one?

[lbuttery]

johnny:

I just worry about changing needs or getting ticked at the vendor
then suddenly I can no longer use something I paid for

I was with Directv for 16 years
they were unable to solve a service issue when I moved to my new house
giving me a BS answer - so I moved on to cable

I seriously doubt if I will ever switch to using software on the cloud

while I was a pioneer computer owner in 1978
I am getting a little "grumpy" about changes as I get older

changes where I get "locked" into something

for the most part customer service stinks across the US now
and I have "voted with my feet" many times

Lew

[dshall]

.....................

We also have a set of additional improvements to the program that in my opinion make the X5 release look weak........................

I had a sneaky feeling this was going to happen. DP has said in the past they hired more gurus. So MAC is a good thing for the PC users.

[johnnyprc]

I had a sneaky feeling this was going to happen. DP has said in the past they hired more gurus. So MAC is a good thing for the PC users.

I agree, there are non-direct ways PC users will benefit from CA being on Mac. CA simply had to do it with how popular Mac is today. Though I am very happy switching from Mac to Win7/8, and I LOVE my Win8 tablet (far beyond my iPads), IF Mac later develops something better than what Windows has, I like knowing I can go back. Right now the two are interchangeable as I see it (except 4x hardware cost) - and I greatly prefer the RT/PRO integration on the tablet side for true power use.

As time goes on, and MS comes out with the full size Surface stand alone computers, Win8/RT will dominate Apple iOS. ---I said it first =)

[HumbleChief]

I've said this before, but it bears repeating.

The result of porting to Mac is a significant improvement in the UI. Better toolbars, tabbed windows, excellent multiple monitor support, improved dialogs to name a few.

We also have a set of additional improvements to the program that in my opinion make the X5 release look weak.

Supporting multiple operating systems after the porting is done boils down to possibly 1/2 a man year per release at the most. This means that all the extra people we brought on board to help with the port will be almost entirely diverted to doing other improvements for X7.

It also means that we will be able to more easily step up to supporting all of your mobile devices in the future.

And it means a higher quality more stable application. Just yesterday we found a bug in some code that has been in Chief for as long as I've been working here that could cause random crashes on Windows, but always crashed on Mac. We have found several cases like this that have measurably improved the stability of the program on Windows simply because we are making it work on Mac.

While you may not ever use a Mac, the result of this support will most definitely improve your Windows experience.

I personally VERY much appreciate your input within threads like this Doug. My world can get pretty small and thinking about the cost of SSA and the fact that I don't/won't own a MAC can make that world even smaller. With your input I can better understand all the implications of the port to MAC and the many benefits. Please, please continue that input. The benefit to your user base could be far more than you realize.

[Mark]

I personally VERY much appreciate your input within threads like this Doug. My world can get pretty small and thinking about the cost of SSA and the fact that I don't/won't own a MAC can make that world even smaller. With your input I can better understand all the implications of the port to MAC and the many benefits. Please, please continue that input. The benefit to your user base could be far more than you realize.

Well said we all get lost in owe worry and small minded ness and yes I feel the same as dugs positive imput was much needed in this thread needed
Both comments helped me to be more positive about X6

[jcaffee]

" ...CA simply had to do it with how popular Mac is today..."

Huh? YTD, Mac has a 7.11% share in the Desktop market. That is down from last year per Netmarketshare. iOS is where Apple's growth is, and their latest global #s vs. Andriod are not good. (Although iOS still holds a commanding lead in the US tablet market).

Couple these numbers with the Autodesk 2012 Annual Report which shows a 23% annual drop in their M&E sector operating now at -16% below cost. Media & Entertainment are their core Mac licensees.

So, tell me again how popular Mac is? (Not to mention Carl Icahn's recent play into Apple which may be the nail in the coffin of Apple producing any content creator machines. Jobs is dead and the raiders have arrived.)

If CA has some magic metrics showing a mass exodus of PC users to Mac within the architectural or ArchVis community, then please, do share. I doubt this is anything but a few noisy, albeit good, customers--or worse, somebody within CA who just "knows" a Mac version will succeed.

I won't get into why it took a platform shift to address usability/UI issues, or the host of other "benefits" from the Mac development claimed by Chief staff. It is sad that it apparently took expanding to a new platform as the only driver in some actual R&D vs. "fireman" updates. (However, if the comments on this board are any indication, Chief Architect needs a whole fire brigade to overcome "workarounditis.")

As I've said in other posts; it will be interesting to see "The List". Still a great piece of software... which can be so much more! (Something I've also been saying since 3DHA v1.5)

jon

[HumbleChief]

Good points Jon.

In the past the Windows and MAC experience were different enough to tailor an application to run better on one platform than the other but that was a LONG time ago when MACs were considered better graphics machines. Today each OS offers an outstanding experience with Windows 7 and 8 far exceeding my expectations and offering a virtually seamless working environment.

There are still specialized areas where MACs are favored over Windows, Pro Audio being one, not because MACs are inherently better but because they have a strong historical foothold in that industry and that foothold begets more users from some legacy magic I don't quite understand. Low end audio on the MAC is dominated by Apple's own software, Logic, and a few MAC players have been forced to port to Windows because they can't compete within that small MAC market dominated by Apple.

Do the same market conditions exist within the Arch community? Are there enough MAC loyalists within the relatively small Arch community (like there are in the equally small or smaller Pro Audio?) to justify a MAC port? Hard to say but that parameter seems more important than overall usage of each OS. Sure the percentage of MACs is only 7.1% but that includes all business users everywhere who use Windows by default. What's the percentage of MAC users within the Arch community and users? A much more relevant number in my opinion.

CA's business decision must be based on garnering more users through the MAC port and justifying those costs and expenses versus revenues and users gained, again, no matter the overall world wide user percentages. There may have indeed been someone within CA who is 'sure that a MAC version will succeed' but the business sense within CA doesn't seem to be that weak IMO and from what I've seen over the past many years with the company I don't get that it's decision was made without a LOT of thought given to it.

Will a MAC version succeed? We'll never know, as those development costs, expenses, revenues etc. numbers will never be shared or made public. Will CA succeed as a thriving company going forward MAC or no MAC? I'm guessing yes based very much on past history but as we all know things can go belly up in any business. I just don't see this port to MAC as a bad business decision but of course only time will tell.

[johnnyprc]

Jon - those numbers are bit deceiving. Desktop market share is measured to include corporate terminal sales as well, which isn't applicable to CA's market. I'll get a true statistic to give you later, but you would need to isolate PC market share to workstations, and then subgroup to creative professionals to get a % that CA cares about. Even without having that number right now, I can tell you its much MUCH stronger than 7.11%, and taken in the past 4 years might even be close to par

...and you mention that too in your comments in a bit different way.

I'll agree with you that I do feel Apple is headed for some rough years - which this time they won't have Jobs to rescue them. History is repeating itself, and Apple no longer has the room to innovate without massive R&D into future tech - which as MS knows becomes a gamble.

Regardless, Apple has enough momentum right now to be a "major" player for 10 years or more - they are seen as a status symbol and that is brand management at the pinnacle of achievement. Who knows, they could get lucky with some new products and keep their position, or other innovators will take over.

No matter what, it was a great move for CA to enter the Mac marketplace. Autodesk's failures may have more to do with their own product than market share reports might suggest.