Best material list alternative?

[GlobalDVLPRS]

hi, I have been reading alot about how CA material lists are not accurate in many ways.

I was curious to know what everyone else uses as an alternative for material lists that are more accurate than CA?
any that can import a CA plan?

any suggestions is greatly appreciated!

[Joe Carrick]

IMNSHO the problem is that Chief doesn't have a consistent identification for materials. In many cases the same size lumber is listed with a different ID/Description. As a result it will appear separately in the materials list and if the unit of measurement isn't the same then that will also result in multiple entries.

Without a comprehensive database and consistent method of specifying materials there's no real good way to export to any outside estimating software.

[lbuttery]

the major issue with the ML is all the work-arounds that are needed
to create a good-looking 3D model and/or 2D plans

those work-arounds either don't make it to the ML or manual adjustments are needed

as CA states in the manual - the ML is only as accurate as the model is

thus, I was considering software like Planswift (and CAD Estimator, now outdated ?)

with software like that all you need to import are the floorplans images
and the elevation images and then do the markups

watch the free demo videos on CADEST and Planswift
to see how that process works

Lew

[perryh]

I don't use the material list except for some takeoff notes but those could be wrong so you have to check it anyway, so why use it.

[GlobalDVLPRS]

yep i am having those problems that you guys have mentioned. and thanks for those links LButtery

But in general, there are the main components that are accurate within the material lists.
i created a 10x10 room (no roof) with only wall studs and checked the material list.

The following measurements on the ML are all accurate:

studs linear sq ft
stucco sq ft of coverage
sheathing sq ft coverage
flooring sf ft


The only major thing that can easily be modified to make the ML list more valuable is a simple formula that calculates how many studs are used for example.
Since CA calculate 'fir studs' as linear feet... the formula would be:
"x amount of linear feet /8.71875"

8.71865 is the feet within a 9' stud. (105 5/8" divided by 12")

So if CA reports that there is 500 linear feet of 2x4 studs, then the formula is
500/8.71875 = 57.35 total studs (based on 9' ceiling) So a very solid # would be 58 pieces of 2 x 4 x 104 5/8" studs.

Is it possible to add a formula like this example into the material lists?

note: i understand I can just export the material list to excel and make the formula there, but the reason i want to create the formula in CA's material list is to save it as a "material list template" so every time I generate a material list, the formula will already be attached to the specific material columns.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE AND IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO THIS IN THE MATERIAL LISTS?

[Alaskan Son]

I personally don't use the CA material lists at this point (except cabinet schedules). I just do those manually. There are far too many issues otherwise, just a few...
-Lengths and types of materials may vary locally and often times this may mean substantial changes to the material list (both product and amount).
-Sheet goods in particular can easily be underestimated based on the size of the rooms (especially drywall)
-Any object built using any number of special CA modeling methods (such as polyline solids, slabs, etc.) won't not end up in the material list anyway.
-Many details require FAR more material and waste than the program will ever accurately account for
-Temporary bracing, templating material, and other non-permanent items will never be accounted for
-Most of the lists need tweaking anyway for various custom items or special notes and details.

Better just starting it from scratch than building on a bad foundation. That's just me though.

[Glenn Woodward]

The only major thing that can easily be modified to make the ML list more valuable is a simple formula that calculates how many studs are used for example.
Since CA calculate 'fir studs' as linear feet... the formula would be:
"x amount of linear feet /8.71875"

8.71865 is the feet within a 9' stud. (105 5/8" divided by 12")

So if CA reports that there is 500 linear feet of 2x4 studs, then the formula is
500/8.71875 = 57.35 total studs (based on 9' ceiling) So a very solid # would be 58 pieces of 2 x 4 x 104 5/8" studs.

Is it possible to add a formula like this example into the material lists?

note: i understand I can just export the material list to excel and make the formula there, but the reason i want to create the formula in CA's material list is to save it as a "material list template" so every time I generate a material list, the formula will already be attached to the specific material columns.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE AND IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO THIS IN THE MATERIAL LISTS?

Do you mean something like this.
If so, I guess it is possible.

[Glenn Woodward]

Michael,

This is really for the benifit of others who may be reading this.

I personally don't use the CA material lists at this point (except cabinet schedules). I just do those manually. There are far too many issues otherwise, just a few...
-Lengths and types of materials may vary locally and often times this may mean substantial changes to the material list (both product and amount).

Standard timber lengths can be controlled by the Buy Lists in Structural Member Reporting.

-Sheet goods in particular can easily be underestimated based on the size of the rooms (especially drywall)

I haven't seen this. Can you give an example?

-Any object built using any number of special CA modeling methods (such as polyline solids, slabs, etc.) won't not end up in the material list anyway.

This is not true, both of these are included in the material list.
Admittedly, the come in as Extertior Trim, but they can be easily moved to another category with a couple of clicks.

-Many details require FAR more material and waste than the program will ever accurately account for

This is what the Extra column is for.

-Temporary bracing, templating material, and other non-permanent items will never be accounted for

Yes, we need to be able to customise the ML with these sort of items.

-Most of the lists need tweaking anyway for various custom items or special notes and details.

This is always going to happen, no matter how accurate the ML is - it is never going to be click and forget!


Better just starting it from scratch than building on a bad foundation. That's just me though.

[lbuttery]

the formula will already be attached to the specific material columns.


you would have to do a macro script in Excel
import the ML file into Excel then execute the macro to "massage" the data as needed

it would be nice if Chief had Ruby scripts that allowed us to "massage" the data within Chief

Lew

[GlobalDVLPRS]

@Glenn, how did you get it to report the # of studs used?

[lbuttery]

how did you get it to report the # of studs used

try the "structural member reporting" feature

Lew

[GlobalDVLPRS]

Thank Lew, I found it.
I changed it to 'buy list' and for 9' ceilings, it defaults to a 2x4x10.

does anyone know how to set it to 104 5/8" ? That will be cheaper then a 10' length stud, which means more waste, cutting etc.

[lbuttery]

does anyone know how to set it to 104 5/8"

probably in your framing defaults dbx ???

Lew

[gteacher]

I believe there is already a entry in the buy list for 104 5/8" If not in yours, you can add it in the structural reporting defaults. Then set the report method to buy list and the current default to buy list or the new list you may create. Also the room rough ceiling must be set at the proper height. 104 5/8 + 4.5 as the program will use the closest list length with out going over. Delete any lengths you do not want to use, but you can not specific what lengths to be used where. (One size fits all). The count is accurate.

[GlobalDVLPRS]

Lew, I am referring to how the material lists reports how many studs is needed.

Another words, If i have a 9' ceiling and we are looking at a 6'x6' room wall like shown in the picture, why does the material list say I need 10' studs if they come pre-cut at 104 5/8" specifically for 9' ceilings.

Is there a way to make it calculate how many 104 5/8" studs are needed, rather than how many 10' studs?


as you can see in the ML snippet,, it reported that I need the correct # of fir plates and the precut size of 92 5/8" ...so why did it not calculate the wall studs correct?