Materials List Revisited

[Ed_Downunder]

Tried to attach and I inserted instead!!! help appreciated.

The wall that is reporting is the foundation wall.( Verticore is a local brick)

Why is it reporting 220 brick & 240 bricks it just a straight foundation wall demonstrating the footing

The mesh is reporting 25 sq m. Look at the slab it is inside the 5m perimeter wall.

The footing is reporting with the slab. There is less than 25 sq m of 100 mm concrete so it should be less than 2.5 cubic meters of concrete.

[gteacher]

Post the plan for comment

[Ed_Downunder]

Hi Gerry,

How can I post the plan file. Have looked on FAQ can't find anything.

I looked at my walls in 3d and the brick returns to close the cavity. Not bothered about it at this time now I know the reason why.

But the mesh is still reporting 25 sq m.

I saw in another post about window sills. How would that report? Length is OK for a stone sill but a brick sill are solids and should report as a brick count.

[gteacher]

Save the plan and close Chief.

Zip the file

Under this forum " go advanced" goto manage attachments

Click on the button, Add to DBX then up load.

If more than 2MB after zip --- use dropbox -- free.

As to sill - it doesn't because its just a molding. reports as window sill -- 1x

IMHO: since this is a monoslab -- slab extends to edge of footing, --- 25 sq. m reasonable for mesh

rebar is for footing. allowing for overlap - reasonable at 40.36. Concrete cal incudes slab, footing, chamfer and wall all in pour 1 ( somewhat misnamed). @ 5.51 close

rebar list as imperial -- should be metric #13. -- Chief still considers monoslab to have 100mm wall at ends and is counting it with rebar , in effect, double counting both mesh and rebar. Also it does appear that wall vs slab is also double counted. Chief refuses to release any formulas used so its hard to tell.

[Mark]

Hi Gerry,

How can I post the plan file. Have looked on FAQ can't find anything.

I looked at my walls in 3d and the brick returns to close the cavity. Not bothered about it at this time now I know the reason why.

But the mesh is still reporting 25 sq m.

I saw in another post about window sills. How would that report? Length is OK for a stone sill but a brick sill are solids and should report as a brick count.

You could email me the plan as I have spent a bit time with material list and have discovered a couple of tricks that may be of interest to that's if you haven't already figured them out
Email house3d@gmail.com

[Justice]

Ed, I used to do Quantity take off by hand for years for builders.

I don't think CA Admin are really that interested in ML.

They focus on the 3d rendering & Drafting side of the program.

keep trying you might get noticed.

I also have the impression that if they got the ML working that they are worried about SCS (Suing Crazy Society).

Disclaimer's are not enough they need a legal document to protect themselves, then they might fix ML significantly?

[lbuttery]

I also have the impression that if they got the ML working that they are worried about SCS (Suing Crazy Society).

Disclaimer's are not enough they need a legal document to protect themselves, then they might fix ML significantly?


Justice:

huh ???

if anything, they would want the ML to be "correct"
by touting a tool that has major flaws someone may want to sue
if they order to much or too little or miss something that should have been ordered
thus causing delays

what kind of legal document are you referring to? that's what disclaimers are - legal documents

Lew

[gteacher]

Lew:

Not sure I agree with you entirely.

Concrete Slab Footing and slab calculations are definitely wrong and apparently have been. Doesn't make much difference on residential housing but would on large project. Doesn't seem to bother Chief now and I expect they won't change. That says something? OTOH, maybe their disclaimer is "air tight".

[lbuttery]

Gerry:

we are in agreement

I was countering the points Justice tried to make

Lew

[Justice]

Lew,

My conclusions are based on discussions from other posts about ML improvements made by CA administration staff.

I don't want to argue with you, that's just the impression I got right or wrong, it should clear up in time.

More important is 3d BIM with CA, they don't think its a priority or not many of us will need it.

With 3d BIM we can get our models taken off by other estimating software or, if no 3d BIM, please fix up ML and make it accurate.

Get a legal document disclaimer maybe, that the take off list even though accurate to some point may not cover all the individual components of a building, since that depends on the level of completion of the BIM model.

I am not a lawyer but that may need to be looked at, before we get more commitment to ML improvements?

[lbuttery]

With 3d BIM we can get our models taken off by other estimating software

Justice:

I think this is probably the better course

it would be nice if it could all be done in one package
but ???

Lew

[Justice]

That's a decision they will have to make carefully.

I would like to see a Take Off system that uses a 3d model that can be explored and updated easily, without going back and forth between programs.

Lets face it the best option for all of us and for Chief is to develop the estimating & Take Off system for native use and also for 3d BIM export.

That way Chief gets bigger exposure to the Home Building Industry world wide, through our exporting our 3d BIM Chief model to them for take off. I hope the HBI take note of Chief's price and say, "yes lets get it for Estimating, Modelling, Plans and Rendering of our Homes so we don't have to go back and forth between programs."

ROI win win for all parties I would think.

So why not do Both and if we have to pay for a separate Premium Chief Estimating package, so be it.

I would think that many Home Builders will opt for Chief over other Home Design software just because of a Premium Estimating extra?

Most of the simpler 2d take off add ons are about $1000 or so and if we wanted a native Chief 3d Premium estimating package we could pay for it if we needed it and keep the price the same for those who do not need it?

Much better to have a native 3d Take Off System than only a 2d add on?

[lbuttery]

So why not do Both and if we have to pay for a separate Premium Chief Estimating package, so be it.


Justice:

I agree, I have suggested that Chief be sold in modules to keep the cost down

however, it is also a matter of resources

if CA doesn't hire more programmers then I would rather they concentrate on getting chief "better"
and just create a BIM capable export

the same applies to energy calcs and structural calcs and collision detection
etc etc etc

Chief can't have "everything" programmed into one package

but with BIM they can "talk" to software that can be dedicated to a task

Lew

[Ed_Downunder]

There is only one way forward and that is to implement a residential BIM strategy. 6d is a bridge too far but 5d is possible. Offering to pay more may or may not be a solution. But a product that can be networked across the office and across the road has got to be the goal. Apart from reporting correctly, a simple time schedule and estimating with supplier and contractor database Chief will place itself ahead of the pack. It already owns the advantage. Our building supervisor needs access the accounts people need access. The cloud is here and is part of our daily operations. The project plan should be available to add this type of information without Chief getting into Knot about security. In my view adding more bells and whistles is nice but a functioning BIM Residential is where the new sales are. The existing commercial orientated software solutions (you know who you are) have a focus on the big end of town and governments. Will they reach back to the residential designer - who knows but one thing for sure they have no interest in residential BIM at this time. BIM is the new technology solution. Cad has been left behind even though many are still using it. Windows 98 WOW it was cutting edge for a day now its not possible to survive or grow with that technology. Fax machine - still got one in the office. We only use it when asked. BIM is not the future BIM is now and Chief had better own some before some other players ( and they are there) get too far ahead. As a starting point fix the materials list. I have prepared a video demonstrating the issues I am having with it. Still working out how to make it available.

[lbuttery]

6d is a bridge too far but 5d is possible

Edward :

LOL

I agree 100%

but at this point based on CA's postings on this forum they just don't "get it"

the beauty of BIM escapes them

Lew