x6 unique identifiers for each door or window while generating schedule- some musings

[bbbuilders]

I prefer not to have doors and windows grouped by size, and prefer to have each window/door listed on its own. As projects become more complex and the number of doors and windows increase having grouped objects can be confusing. Being able to work through the window or door schedule and plan in an organized order with unique numbers verses jumping around based on size helps to ensure that nothing is missed. Lets say I have a bank of 6 windows, I want to show these 6 windows with consecutive numbers (W105, W106, W107, ...... W112, W113) however if they are grouped by size, they could potentially be any number and probably will not be in any order that makes sense. Being able to choose which column we want to sort by would also be nice.

I currently specify doors (D101, D102 ....) and windows (W101, W102, ...) with a unique label which works pretty good, but they do not always sort correctly in the schedule and I am not sure why. I also use the label number to specify and group doors and windows by floor - 001 ... for basement 101 ... main floor and 201 ... 2nd floor.

[billemery]

Hi Dermot,
As with almost anything else in the building industry, there are different approaches to schedules.

One very popular approach which chief does reasonably well is grouping doors and windows by ascending size. This is popular with window and door suppliers because they can readily see size, type and quantity. The problem with Chief's schedules for those of us who use the industry standard foot inch system is that a 2'-10" door or window will report before a 2'-2", a 2'-6" and a 2'-8" which makes the schedule seem random to inexperienced users. The large problem with this system is its apparent lack of coherence when looking at the plans or elevations. A window W02, can be sitting next to a W37, but far from a W01, or W03.

A system that address this failing is a system where each window or door has a discrete number. I like to number counter clockwise around the building so that the numbers follow consecutively from left to right in the elevations. This makes it easy for the builder to see where the next window will go. I will generally number the interior doors from right to left, grouping doors in a logical fashion with numbering consistency in a hallway or a suite. I may group my closet doors, or pocket doors together if it aids clarity in the drawing. Chief allows me to do this by assigning a unique number in the label column where it looks first to sort. This method is a little time consuming, so it would be nice to have a tool that is similar to the "make same as" tool where I could just click around the plan to set the order.

Chief's scheduling system is quite adaptable, but poorly documented. It's also an area that is user hostile; the entire component system, and adding columns to the schedule are not at all intuitive.

I'd like to see better implementation of Ruby in the schedule system. for example: I'd like to be able create a column for wall thickness and draw that information into the schedule by way of the window or doors object properties. Doors are generally bought prehung, and the schedule is incomplete without the wall thickness. Windows are also dependent on the wall thickness for their jamb extensions, or surrounds.

[Maureen Giattino]

As with almost anything else in the building industry, there are different approaches to schedules.

One very popular approach which chief does reasonably well is grouping doors and windows by ascending size. This is popular with window and door suppliers because they can readily see size, type and quantity. The problem with Chief's schedules for those of us who use the industry standard foot inch system is that a 2'-10" door or window will report before a 2'-2", a 2'-6" and a 2'-8" which makes the schedule seem random to inexperienced users. The large problem with this system is its apparent lack of coherence when looking at the plans or elevations. A window W02, can be sitting next to a W37, but far from a W01, or W03.

This is one of the major drawbacks to schedules. Chief should look past the first digit when ordering a schedule. I use manufacturer numbers; a 28310 (49" high) should list after a 2832 (41").

I would like to be able to sort the window list by columns, similar to an Excel spreadsheet, with the ability to choose multiple sorting parameters.

I would prefer to sort by window type (double hung, casement), then height, then by width. This makes QC a little easier.

The connection to the components dialog is counter-intuitive. Can we have a connection between the label tab and the components box?

Bill is a schedule wizard. He's figured out ways to trick the schedule to do what he needs it to do. I'm not that clever and just want it to be more automated and accurate.

[kenoeightspot]

I agree with Bill Emery

[Ron Ravenscroft]

I agree with Bill Emery

ME 2. It seems that this has been kicked around for far to long.

[Joe Carrick]

I think everyone knows how I feel about this subject. I'm amazed that none of the previous rantings by numerous posters on these forums has been taken seriously. The same suggestions come up time after time and nothing is done.

[kiwicad]

Dermot,
if there was a poll my guess is that it would be 80% weighted for unique identifiers (door and window label designators) and 20% to group them in door /window schedules.

As a suggestion, it would be really really good if x6 gave us even a simple tick box 'to group or not group' and 'clockwise or counterclockwise' labelling tick box.
I will have to investigate how Bill does it.

My experience shows that the guys and gals who QS pretty much go off the floorplan page, and will go around the building counting doors/windows etc.
Its not until later on when the doors/windows actually get to be made that the door/window schedule per se (typically with grouped objects as chief has done in the past) is used.

The separate 'window schedule' page we do in the southern hemisphere,
and standard side elevations of the building are used to check the floorplans door/window schedule are showing the correct window sizes.

Dermot heres some info. on how I think most people use the scheduler:
-in the past people have not displayed a door/ window schedule tables on the plans, (reason: operator inability / program limitations /documentation not supplied
to configure program to display information in desired format.)
-the labels generated (in the past typically grouped) on the floorplans is undesirable - want unique identifiers for each door, window.
I am specifically talking about perimeter external doors/windows.
internal doors/windows are an entirely different topic! (and ARE grouped)

the workaround:
-manually label each external perimeter door/window on the plan (text note) in clockwise/anticlockwise direction from front door.
-turn off the display of its size on the plans.
-manually create a unique separate window schedule page which shows an elevation of the window/door, and below that manually write
information on the door/window size and link it back to the floorplan page by manually writing its unique identifier number.

this is standard practice for southern hemisphere.
it is time consuming. - we are talking hours here, not minutes.

hence the reason to explore ways to shave hours off each plan that gets created.
2-3 hrs per plan x 50 plans per year = happiness.

hint:
perhaps I need documentation/a video on this ruby feature to:
auto generate my (4) side elevations, extract from the wall side elevation the perimeter window/door outline only,
export to a new cad detail,
auto space them out evenly horizontally,
auto display below the window/door its unique identifier, vertical and horizontal height.
job done.

bernard
NZ

[dshall]

I did a video called the ultimate door and window schedule which explains how I give each door and window a unique label, as well a designating new and existing windows. Whilst I have figured out how to use the schedules to meet my needs, the functionality could definitely be improved.

[ebdesign]

I'd like to see Chief recognize the room that a door or window is in, then if a "Room" column is "included" in the schedule, then Chief would separate out the windows by room in the schedule. If no Room column included, then grouped by size.

[lbuttery]

I agree with Jim

except I would also want the ability to sort by floor

Lew

[Dermot Dempsey]

Ron,

I am sorry that you did not find the information that I posted about schedules very helpful.

I am not sure how your comments and questions are related to my post though.

If you need help, I would recommend that you contact tech support.

[Ron Ravenscroft]

Ron,

I am sorry that you did not find the information that I posted about schedules very helpful.

I am not sure how your comments and questions are related to my post though.

If you need help, I would recommend that you contact tech support.

When one rtuns a door schedule you get 2 hinges for a pocket door and a header that is to short. It is not a tech support issue it is a programing issue.

[bbbuilders]

Dermot,

If you could add a couple options in schedules; 1) select column to sort by 2) select which column to group (or not group by) it just might give us enough flexibility to meet everyone's needs.

[billemery]

Hi Edward,
Yes, it's possible to have these two schedules, and other variations on the same plan.

Here you see the estimating schedule on the top, and the construction schedule with the unique number for each door on the bottom.

[marty]

Its good to see this topic getting some discussion and that Dermot is asking questions.
I want to add my vote to need for sequenced window and door numbering not grouping them together by size.
I also want to add my support for a graphical schedule as requested. Chief already has a graphical representation of every door and window which can be seen when the dbx is open. All we want is for that information to be available in a cad detail much like roof trusses do.

Attached is an example of a graphical schedule - this one has no numbers but it shows the principle. To generate this I call up elevations with just walls, windows & doors and send them to cad detail. I then tidy them up, organise them and send to layout. The problem is if anything changes I have to repeat the process.