Hallway Width

[Chris Brown]

I read it. I think I am good but I welcome anyone else's take.

[dshall]

There are door clearances in the ada link. They differ depending on the hinge side and the approach.
Have a look here: http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/ht...res/fig25.html

I started a response saying the the same thing, but did not post. Listen to The Moakster, completely understand the requirements.

[Chris Brown]

Kevin, if you think I am wrong, and I certainly may be, please tell me.

[joey3032]

The exit door at the end of the hall is in a recessed area. The door is 36", but there needs to be adequate clearence for the door to swing open and get out of the way of an egressing wheelchair.

As an aside to the ADA issue, I got dinged on the new energy code requirements for commercial buildings requiring a "vestibule" or double door area at the openings to the building. Had to redo a lobby a few months ago. There are exemptions....of course....but you may want to check that as well.

[Chris Brown]

I have changed this plan from the original picture that I posted. Now that back wall is straight across and the door is in it.

[lbuttery]

as was mentioned I think the IBC codes call for hall width depending on the # of people in the building

Lew

[pintodesign]

Hi Chris
I think what you need to be aware of is the requirement that for a door opening away from you into a room, the approach side has to have min. of 12" clear on the handle side. If the door is opening toward you, I believe the clearance is 18".
So, you can't just center a 36" door in a 48" hallway because you'd only have 6" clearance.
Hope that helps.
Barb

[WendyWelton]

Chris,

There's ADA & egress requirements, and then there's occupant sanity. You'll find that for hallways you can meet code and ADA with less than you want for pure usability.

I don't go less than 48" for halls other than maybe that little stub that only goes to two offices. And for halls of any real length I go to 5 ft, especially if it's not a loop (ie, interior movement can conceivably go one-way, like a rotary). Two wheelchairs going opposite directions can pass at 60", but not at 48".

[Chris Brown]

Thanks Barb, you are correct and thanks Wendy. This is what I have done after rereading all of this. I have changed my hall width back to 5' wide. I am going to tell the building owner what I have done and why and tell him that he is welcome to talk to the inspector at framing time and if he gives him the goahead on 4' wide hallways, wonderful. But at least this way I feel that I have done my job.

[dshall]

Thanks Barb, you are correct and thanks Wendy. This is what I have done after rereading all of this. I have changed my hall width back to 5' wide. I am going to tell the building owner what I have done and why and tell him that he is welcome to talk to the inspector at framing time and if he gives him the goahead on 4' wide hallways, wonderful. But at least this way I feel that I have done my job.

I do not think it important to thank "The Moakster" for the heads up.

[Chris Brown]

Hey Scott, I have thanked and continue to thank Kevin 3 now 4 times but thanks for keeping track of it for me, get to work man.

[moak]

Thanks for thanking of me Scott.
I feel adequately thanked, thank you.

[WendyWelton]

Chris,

If your building owner gives you a hard time, it might help to educate him on ADA, which is civil rights legislation. Simply getting past the code officer does not insulate him from civil lawsuits. And a 48" hallway that might "pass code" could very well annoy the livin' crap out someone in a wheelchair. And all it takes is one person with a well placed chip on the proverbial shoulder, and your building owner is paying lawyers a lot of money.

I had a builder tell me recently about the fully ADA apartment building he built - with elevators and the whole nine yards. At the very last minute he decided some basement storage would be a nice amenity. The elevators don't go the basement. He got sued. They got HUD involved. They wouldn't even allow him to remove the storage. They made him pay to redo all those elevators and make them go to the basement. So your building owner should listen to you. When you use common sense about wheelchairs, you're looking out for your building owner's best interests as well.

[Chris Brown]

Wendy, I agree with you. I just finished my plans and turned them in. I told the owner that the hallways needed to be 5' wide per code and that it was my responsibility to draw them that way, which I did.

[RMorrison]

Chris,
I am generally loathe to get involved in issues like this, but there are a few caveats that you should be aware of:
1) The ADA guidelines link that Kevin posted is apparently from 2002. I am aware that there was at least a 2010 version adopted. You should always make sure that you are working from the latest and greatest.

2) While you are telling the owner that 5' is required by Code, are you SURE it's required, even if it may be desirable? If someone happens to say to the Owner, "Why are your hallways so wide?" and it turns out that you COULD have used a 42" or 48" hallway, say, and the Owner discovers that he has been paying rent for "needless" hallway space, it could come back to bite you. If you are using 5' hallways "just to be safe" (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), then the proper thing is to explain to the Owner (in writing) that this is what you are proposing and why.

3) You didn't ask much about it, but in addition to the 60" turning radius in the bathroom, there are also strict requirements for showers, toilets, and grab bars. Your plan doesn't show too much in this regard, and if you haven't gotten into it, you may find, for example, that the curbless shower stall that you should have specified gets to be very expensive to retrofit.

4) Commercial design has huge liability beyond construction defects, as Wendy has mentioned. It wouldn't hurt to recommend (in writing) to your Owner that he review the plans with a certified ADA consultant to avoid problems. It would be cheap insurance.