Proposed Solution for CA

[William H Lynch]

Perhaps a couple of these might come in handy. Attachment 57041 Attachment 57040


More importantly these:

Merry Christmas to all.


Attachment 57042 Attachment 57044

Thanks for the reminder. Wishing everyone a very 'Merry Christmas'!

[johnnyprc]

Yes, Merry Christmas everyone!

So you know, I think several people have missed my main point. Its not that I want stronger 2D tools for "ONLY" elevations like I posted, but to do 2D work however it is needed - and have the tools there to use. Unless I am wrong, adding 2D tools should be fairly easy compared with 3D tools. I've posted a recent plat layout I did in Vectorworks. I can do EVERYTHING in Vectorworks I need to do, but CA has it beat in the 3D process for residentail. Sketchup ADDED their layout program to allow people to do great 2D work in conjuction with the powerful 3D modeling.

I think Sketchup, though it doesn't render as well as CA, is much more professional with how it diplays profile lines.

I really can't understand why people wouldn't want the ability to better 2D work. At some point everyones work becomes 2D, and I think CA can help make that part sharper and better. In fact, more people will see 2D work than the 3D models.

[johnnyprc]

Maybe while we are on the topic, someone could share for me the design process they typically take for a new project.

Right now, mine would be:

1. Rough Site Concepts - showing block area associations
2. Rough Floor Plan Concepts - showing different layouts that made it from step 1.
3. Rough Elevation Ideas - sectional detail concepts.
4. Rough Interior Elevation Concepts.
5. Concept 3D model in CA.
6. Refine Model to complete finished model.
7. Create Construction Documents.
8. Create Specification Documents.
9. Finalize Submittal Package (with engineering) - Stamp Drawings
10. Submit to City/County/ACC.

I work with the contractor(s) throughout to make sure bidding is matching budget. This is very important to our discussion since I'd really like to know what you do for my 1-4...or do you start with 5 to produce 1-4?? I really don't see how that could be possible.

I'd like to add that I hire draftsman for my work, so I typically do concept drawings and pass it to my draftsman/designers to help complete the project. Maybe a large disconnect is the type of office I have VS how most people here are working. If I need to start with the model, that would mean I need to start geting into areas of the process I don't typically do....execpt on some projects. Is everyone else on this thread a sole practitioner??....or do you pass the entire model on to draftsman??

[johnnyprc]

For lack of a better example ready to post, I found 4 pictures drawn in 3D. The first 2 have virtually NO profile and consideration to foreground and backround values. The second drawings have profile lines thickened and value consideration for foreground and backround. See how much better the second 2 drawings read. This is what I am referring. Sketchup actually does provide support to allow profile lines, and "fog" to place in the backround so objects behind don't all have the same tone quality. CA could add both profile and "fog" this way so greater control is given the user.

Here is an architect who goes through that process with Sketchup - using profile lines and "fog" to create rich documents from the Sketchup model.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAZshFN0I-o

[johnnyprc]

Joey Martin, who works with me on CA, did these models recently. Joey also won the recent competion for "plan set", so he is a great CA user. Anyway, I thought I'd share the CA model of the home I posted in 2D to start. We are still working on this project and I will post more later if anyone is interested.

Thanks!

[Joe Carrick]

Johnny,

I basically do steps 1-4 in my head because I can. Then I start with Chief with step 5. It's just the way I think. Forty years ago I worked in an office where I had 5-7 draftsmen and I spent most of my time reviewing their work and red-marking it for corrections. I found it less than satisfying. With Chief I don't need any draftsmen and can be much more creative.

[johnnyprc]

Joe,

I am not even 40 years old, so that is a whole new issue! I've been going at this for about 1/4 of the time you have, so I use a lot of the processes I learned in school. I could see where that would be different in 30 more years where my experiance would account for how much "concept work" I just know out of my head vs need to work through it. That is funny, but yeah - I am too new to rely on that method.

My partner, Bill Obrock, is 70 years old and been an architect for 45 years...and yes, he just looks over my work and nods or shakes his head. This is the type of work he does at our office:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnqjaeQDShY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gq6vpmR3CQ

Thanks!

[dshall]

..............
My partner, Bill Obrock, is 70 years old and been an architect for 45 years...and yes, he just looks over my work and nods or shakes his head. This is the type of work he does at our office:.............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnqjaeQDShY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gq6vpmR3CQ

Thanks!

I suppose your partner is Bill, and the videos were done by B. Berkus. Back in the '70's I was working for my Dad at his design firm South of Houston, and just before I moved out to San Diego, one of the projects he had taken on was to do the the CD's for some Condos, I believe on Clear Lake in the Nassau Bay area, and they were designed by B. Berkus. I remember seeing some of Berkus's sketches of the condo's in the office before I left. They were great looking sketches on butter paper if I remember correctly. The process I go through when I design a remodel with a client is almost exactly like the method Berkus used in video #1.

[dshall]

This is a great video by Berkus making a point about sketching.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=r...&v=fwJB7KzDEbQ

[Dave Pitman]

Scott, how about this link instead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwJB7KzDEbQ
(Mobile links don't work too well on pc's)

[dshall]

Scott, how about this link instead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwJB7KzDEbQ
(Mobile links don't work too well on pc's)

I watched that, did not make much of an impression, I could not relate. I have probably watched about 10 of his videos. I relate well to the videos that involve designing a solution.

A big theme of his is the process of designing with pen and paper in lieu of the computer. I get this. The magic for me is determining the right time to switch to the computer. Of course I am not a world famous architect, therefore my fees are much less, so now the balance is determining how much time I spend on design.

What I love to do is to design in front of my client. This helps speed up the basic layout and requirements, pretty much in the Barry Method of designing but with immediate client input.

[johnnyprc]

Yes, Bill is my partner - not Berkus. I was just trying to relate the type of work my older partner does. We make a great team, he has all the experiance and know how - and I have the drive and desire. One day I hope I can put the 2 together, but just when I do that I am sure another young architect will team up with me and I will be the master who gets to rough sketch all day.

Round and round we go I guess.

I really do think CA would be a perfect APP if it added more features to its Layout subAPP. That is the place to do it, and I really think it couldn't be that hard to make tools more like Sketchup's Layout app. Beyond that, adding better profile line control and we're all set. So many programs end up adding features until they have to step back and do a "redesign" on the core app. If I look at the history of CA, they seem to add features and features and clump them into the program on top of each other. There is a greater learning curve to CA than ANY app I have used for the past 10 years. Tons of nuances and "qurky" behaviors.

That said, it is still better at 3D residential modeling. Bad news for CA is that all other programs are getting better and better and catching up. CA better get its act together quickly or get lost in the dust.

[Dave Pitman]

I watched that, did not make much of an impression, I could not relate.

Hmmm...I thought I just gave the same link that you were offering, only formatted correctly for linking to from a desktop.
Oh well.

This is a great video by Berkus making a point about sketching.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=r...&v=fwJB7KzDEbQ

[perryh]

1. Rough Site Concepts - showing block area associations
2. Rough Floor Plan Concepts - showing different layouts that made it from step 1.
3. Rough Elevation Ideas - sectional detail concepts.
4. Rough Interior Elevation Concepts.

I never do anything Draft or Rough style. I draw everything as if it was the final. Chief is just to easy to change later.

[yusuf]

Chief is just to easy to change later.
------------------------------------------
That is the most important thing to know about how ca does what you want.
my way is simply start with some thing and in the middle of the work, different ideas come to flow.even when working on a one project on my way i may get some usefull results for an other pending project, by immediatly closing it i may open the other project and apply the changes there.
This is the rough model i used to produce the posted elvns. In general i dont worry about where to start as well never fix the end results appeariance from the begining. That helps me to reach the distination which is the faciliy design needed whith the service requested fully achieved.to some extent the floor plan is even daynamic , i dont exactly have a fixed procedure to do things, but that statement of perry is the most important thing to note.