Proposed Solution for CA

[dshall]

........................ It takes me 1-2 hrs to come up with those elevations in 2D color, when it would take me a day or two to model.

Hard to believe but I suppose it is possible, the 3D comes with a model that is built correctly, I never use 2D to create elevations anymore.............. I might be missing something, but I hope not............ the 3D modeling is the future and 2D will be gone in the near future. Drawing in 2D is a waste of time in my opinion.

Your 2D elevations look really nice, but if I was a client, I would much rather see a 3D represention of my new home. The artistic 2D renderings are really beautiful, but 3D............... come on, 2D does not hold a candle to 3D.

[perryh]

I would rather Chief work on the 3d model to make it better than work on cad drawing tools because if the model were better, no cad is needed.

[johnnyprc]

I bought this guy's book and have really learned a lot from him on combining 3D with 2D to make the best of both worlds. Here is his website - http://www.drawingshortcuts.com/draw...cuts/Home.html

Even though I agree the future is in 3D "concept drawing", the tools are still coming around. CA does not provide what is needed to make 2D unnecessary.

I still think they should add better 2D tools to the Layout sub-app, and provide "profile" lines on the models - overall better line control. I think we can all agree on that.

[dshall]

...........................
Even though I agree the future is in 3D "concept drawing", the tools are still coming around.

THEY WILL ALWAYS BE COMING AROUND

CA does not provide what is needed to make 2D unnecessary.

I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT

I still think they should add better 2D tools to the Layout sub-app, and provide "profile" lines on the models - overall better line control. I think we can all agree on that.

I AGREE WITH THIS, BUT I AIN'T THROWING THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER

.................................................. .....

[johnnyprc]

Scott - I have to take into account the relativity of every direct statement like that - there are exceptions to every rule/statement. Overall from the vantage-point of architects/designers CA is not a complete tool. CA struggles to be a force in the CAD world, yet their 3D is arguably one of the best - particularly for residential. If CA was a complete package, I think it would be more popular.

Speaking for myself - I find CA a great tool, but it is not possible for me to rely on it alone. My time is much more efficient, and my creatively greater, if I follow a 2D concept first drawing approach to establish a "program" for my project. This is in keeping with how every architect is taught in school. Other than a "principle only" type office, the approach I am using makes it so I could work in any office - and use any tool.

[yusuf]

in my view, ca has its limits, and comparing with lummion and more tougher ones is an other issue, when i come back to our spescific topic, i believe there is no way that we cant get such elvns like those posted by jhonyp if the model is done accurately. I believe that if you can do such drawings with out first playing on your 3d or just creating a virtual 3d in your mind,it is extra ordinarry process. And putting your immaginary or virtual 3d in your mind to chief,then you can complete the whole final set at once.
I am saying this fore sure because we all have learned in school(undeniable common sence) that the front,rear,right and left are the virtual 3d object projected on the xz,yz planes of the space cordinate. Fore sure no elvns can be simply done with out the virtual 3d imagination which is the projected on said planes in cs. Therefores any bim app is helpfull in refining that image in the mind for real and final dicisions after many intermediary outputs dumped as nescesary to get the final one as you like. This helps us reach the final elvns and model at one time!
I agree that ca has to go forward. This is a general truth and obvious and i thing that is why this forum and software engs r there and all this talks. This is just to move forward. may be thier plan or the steps they take depends on a lot of determinants(they know it). At least i can assure you no one is to argue here that ca will stick on the current stage and no need for improvent. That is illogical and all of us r waiting for x6 to come and they may may be also working with great effort to incorporate all that helps.

[Joe Carrick]

I haven't gotten into this discussion because I didn't think it was going anyplace and your requests are not important.

That said, I will make the following observations:

1. Johnny's elevations are OK.
2. They can be done in Chief (assuming you know how to use the program and can think outside the box a bit)
3. Chief has 3D Tools and Rendering and Ray-Trace Tools that are superior.
4. Modeling a project in 3D and getting accurate elevations as a starting point is better than working in 2D

I know Johnny's 2D rendering techniques (manual version) because I was taught the manual methods back in college (I graduated in 1969 - not 1869).
In 1973-1974 I made a pretty good living just doing 2D elevation renderings using manual techniques.
I've been using CAD since 1978 when 3D wasn't available and I know all the 2D tricks - and they are all available in Chief if you know where to look.

So no matter what Johnny thinks, CA should not waste any time on 2D rendering other than perhaps an "Elevation Shadow Tool" with the full recognition that a good user can do it in a fraction of the time than Johnny indicates.

Sorry Johnny - IMNSHO there are much more important things for CA to spend it's time on. I have already listed these things in many other posts.

[lbuttery]

CA has stated that their goal is to derive the 2D from the 3D

just as there are many screwdrivers in a tool box
a designer may need to have multiple software to accomplish their workflow

I would be in favor of CA having better 2D cad tools
my partner could use them - but I can't

Lew

[yusuf]

Joe, i really like that sharp observation.
and lew is the ts your partner?
Kkkkk.
scott was looking for him in an older thread.http://www.chieftalk.com/images/styl...s/rolleyes.png

[William H Lynch]

CA has stated that their goal is to derive the 2D from the 3D

just as there are many screwdrivers in a tool box
a designer may need to have multiple software to accomplish their workflow

I would be in favor of CA having better 2D cad tools
my partner could use them - but I can't

Lew

Oh no!, Lew and I are agreeing on something! Well put Lew. It all boils down to what we are comfortable working with, where your 'roots' are.

I often do renderings and elevations for appearance committees for minor revisions to a house, such as adding a porch or sun room. It actually takes very little time to create a 3D representation for the "shell' of the house. Two hours maybe, not days.

However, Johnny, your comments are worth noting, I too would like to see many of the 2D CAD you suggest implemented.

Especially,
1- Shadows in elevation views
2- Improved, additional hatch fill tools.
3- Further refinement in how the 3D model converts to a 2D image. I still haven't found the perfect model that requires no 'clean-up' in 2D.

Can CA be the one and only program that meets the needs of everyone, probably not, but I think it can come pretty dang close...

[yusuf]

Oh no!, Lew and I are agreeing on something! Well put Lew. It all boils down to what we are comfortable working with, where your 'roots' are.

I often do renderings and elevations for appearance committees for minor revisions to a house, such as adding a porch or sun room. It actually takes very little time to create a 3D representation for the "shell' of the house. Two hours maybe, not days.

However, Johnny, your comments are worth noting, I too would like to see many of the 2D CAD you suggest implemented.

Especially,
1- Shadows in elevation views
2- Improved, additional hatch fill tools.
3- Further refinement in how the 3D model converts to a 2D image. I still haven't found the perfect model that requires no 'clean-up' in 2D.

Can CA be the one and only program that meets the needs of everyone, probably not, but I think it can come pretty dang close...

where is the like!
I click the like.

[Glenn Woodward]

I gotta agree with you Joe.
I was also keeping out of this thread because I wasn't that fussed and I was just letting Jonny have his say.
But now that you have said it, I will agree with you!

[louis]

I gotta agree with you Joe.
I was also keeping out of this thread because I wasn't that fussed and I was just letting Jonny have his say.
But now that you have said it, I will agree with you!

I gotta agree with you Glen and Joe.
I was also keeping out of this thread because I wasn't that fussed and I was just letting Jonny have his say.
But now that you both have said it, I will agree with both of you!

[William H Lynch]

I gotta agree with you Joe.
I was also keeping out of this thread because I wasn't that fussed and I was just letting Jonny have his say.
But now that you have said it, I will agree with you!

And I 98% agree with Joe, but there is room for improvement, Johnny makes some valid points... Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it only serves to make CA a more valued product!

[Sledge]

Perhaps a couple of these might come in handy.


More importantly these:

Merry Christmas to all.