Proposed Solution for CA

[johnnyprc]

So I recently am working on a project where I had to concept 2 different styles from a rough draft floor plan. I've included both styles of elevations I did to show - using Vectorworks 2D. I've said before I dont see any way that CA could make these sorts of drawings possible or feasible with any remote quality similar to what I would get in a CAD app like Autocad or Vectorworks...unless I modeled the entire building. Then, I saw some great videos on Sketchup and Layout. If CA would just develop their Layout app to a point where the 2D drafting tools where similar to the other apps on the market, CA really would have an all-around perfect CAD app. More importantly, I would have more copies of CA in my office than what I am left with now buying other apps to fill gaps from what I can't get done in CA.

Does anyone have a drawing they did in CA that was for "concept" rough-cut process?....or does everyone just model the entire structure from the beginning? Not to sound like a broken record, but to not deal in concept drawings, I cannot see how anyone uses a process that effectively "explores" design ideas quickly.



Check out the Sketchup/Layout combo that I think CA could use for better 2D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpyt0crlJW8

[VHampton]

Would really love to be able to make drawings similar to this style in Chief.
http://www.chieftalk.com/attachment....9&d=1356059184

2D elevations with shadows make for a really great presentation. The dark windows are something I've never really looked into. I like the way they read

Really excellent work by the way.

[johnnyprc]

Thanks! Although I went to your website and was humbled with your finished work. GREAT WORK.

Yes, I really wish this could be done in CA too. I can do this in most other CAD apps, but where they are strong in 2D (since that is how they started), CA beats them in the 3D for residential architecture. But my main problem is that you really need both, since its really hard to design in 3D "on the fly" and I normally need to see how things look through sketching etc.

In this case I had to show different styles to the client off the same floor plans - and didn't want to model the entire "style". Each elevation took a little longer than an hour, and the client decided what he needed.

The other "details" took maybe 30 min, but I was able to show an "idea" before drawing the entire structure in 3D.

Here are some more drawings from this project for fun.

[yusuf]

Welcome back. Nice work!
Regarding ca, i believe it can be done with it.

[johnnyprc]

So you know too, I have taken CA files and exported them into a DWG file - then using Autodesk Sketchbook Designer (Designer - not PRO) you can get the same work done farily easy. In fact, they expect AutoCad users do use Sketchbook Designer for this type of work - so I guess I am not worse off then. Vectorworks does allow this to be created in their APP, but Vectorworks 3D is not great for residential....so I am looking at 2 apps any way I go about it.

I just don't like the fact you have to model the entire building with CA before you get useable drawings for simple concepts. I wish they would make their 2D stronger, or like Sketchup make Layout a more complete 2D app.
JP

[java tom]

That would take days in CA. But it would be in 3d.

[yusuf]

Ok i did this in x4, Very short time.
There was also a pending thread dear johny.
http://www.chieftalk.com/showthread....ntation-style-!!!!

[yusuf]

for illustration contd

[dhowardaia]

Nice for CA, Yusuf, but it doesn't hold a candle to JP work. CA needs to step it up.

Dorothy

[johnnyprc]

yusuf:

Good job, but the issue is in how CA deals with ends of lines, and the overall line thickness control. On top of that, CA hasn't bothered to all 2D image textures and screens (shadows) to be applied except through their model render engine. Most other CAD apps have stronger support for 2D - that is what I am pushing to get the people at Chief to see how architects/designers could do so much more with those tools.

Not to mention that I would buy more CA lic. since I would't need the other apps to run my office.

[yusuf]

Thanks dorothy, i too believe improvements r crucial at any stage ca may reach, but mostly critiques towards ca is not beyond its current limits, i appreciate johny and his works in vectorworks and have the real confidence on his capacity which i thing is beyond the the knowledge i may have to architecture since i am engineer by profesion from university. When we come to an app or a tool,it is a matter of experience and learning procedures plus knowing some tips and tricks. my frnd jp does not believe this is done in ca,rather in a software he mentioned, you can c an explicit dennial in the link i posted above. And simply i am trying to convince jp that ca can handle a lot, and i did that using ca only! I repeat completly an output of ca elivation tools.
Btw; i conceptualize the building floor serviceability in the light of its 3d viz parallelly and ca helps me in doing both at the same time, its hard for me to be confined only on 2d with out parallelly moulding the 3d which i make fun of it. My latest play was on this dommy auditerium hall using ca 2d and 3d which is now concept stage (from nothing to some thing)

[VHampton]

Over the past ten years Chief Architect has made huge strides forward and for that I am very grateful. But to be honest there's a slight hint of envy in seeing your work Johnny. That particular architect who works with Skecthup produces some amazing drawings.


I use Chief mostly for production drawings, not so much for 3D renderings and raytraces. But being able to add some hand drawn effects (and shadows) on the elevations would really be a plus. I played around a bit and you can come very close to a similar result if the camera is adjusted to the right height. (see attached)



_{Thanks very much by the way Johnny for the compliments. One of these days I'm going to get a real web site made.}

[johnnyprc]

I agree, what Nick Sonder (architect featured by Sketchup) does for his drawings are very nice. I know for a fact though it takes him 3-5times as long compared to working in CA - ive dont it. Although, Sketchup does do "some" presenting styles better - particular in line quality and overall weights. I really think CA needs to focus first on line weight issues, and if you see the other thread where I discussed this, one of the CA developers jumping into the discussion to agree that they need to work on that for future releases. Well defined profile lines are non-existant in CA, and they don't make adding them very easy.

One thing on your example - WHY, oh why doesnt CA allow shadows to be viewed in elevtion sections??? That seems like a VERY simple thing to add. I do like the idea of using this for some of the elevations. I don't know about you, but all out plans now are printing in full color (working drawings) and we work to make our drawings like artwork.

[marty]

I believe that vectorworks and other software that started as primarily 2D programs have had to develop the 2D enhancements to compensate for the lack of 3D presentation. Although there is room for improvement - shadows in elevation would be great - it would be a backwards step to try and compete with 2D softeare features when the answer is to move forward and expand the 3D display options.

Over the years I have heard many new converts to Chief complain that their new 3D parametric program wont work like their old 2D electronic drawing board. Designing in 3D is not an automatic skill and I think it took me 2 or 3 years to abandon the pencil for concepts but now the speed I can produce concepts and subsequent variations in 3D is light years ahead of what I used to do.

Once you have made the commitment that Chief is the way to go spend the time to extract the maximum out of it. I enjoy the presentation side so much I often spend far more time than should refining the images but I know that I more than make up for that by the speed I do everything else.

[VHampton]

Designing in 3D is not an automatic skill and I think it took me 2 or 3 years to abandon the pencil for concepts but now the speed I can produce concepts and subsequent variations in 3D is light years ahead of what I used to do.

Once you have made the commitment that Chief is the way to go spend the time to extract the maximum out of it. I enjoy the presentation side so much I often spend far more time than should refining the images but I know that I more than make up for that by the speed I do everything else.

Very well said.

I've always felt that CA can run circles around the other software in terms of relative speed for creating top quality construction drawings. Function has always been first but they've made some very impressive changes in the past 5 versions.

No doubt we'll soon have what some of the other programs offer. It just takes time.

They read the forums and they do their best to step things up a notch with every release.