Off 90 by just a hair..

[Bradley Boltz]

I rekon these off ortho problems are caused by solely by your snap settings.
I think Chief comes standard with all snaps on, which is way overkill.
I also rekon that grid snaps are the worst offender and don't use it for that reason.
It is not hard to toggle snaps off if all you want is angle snaps.

Brad,
Whats the problem with drawing a short wall length.
I just tried and had no trouble drawing a wall 10mm long - I just tried again and can even get it down to 1mm long.
Once again, I rekon that this is caused by your grid snap setting.

Post a plan that demonstrates the problems you are having.

Glenn(two "n"s just like my favorite underrecognized guitarist Glenn Phillips from Atlanta),
if you turn off all snaps but the "angle snaps" then what is the roof baseline going to snap to?
Guess I'll need to experiment but constantly toggling back & forth to get the proper snaps and all the zooming gets to be a PainInTheArse(i hate abreviations like LOL etc).-BB

[mkennedy]

I have seen this in plans posted. How does that happen? One reason maybe angle snaps are off or the user is not careful enough when drawing the roof plane. My base lines are typically only about 60" long or so, so I am sure the base line is on the wall. I do not run the roof base line the entire length of wall, which may be a contributing factor.

Yeah, I draw my base lines pretty short and inside the building, then use a (negative) dim to set my overhang or a join roof to make hips\valleys.
I think I tend to drag past the reference if there's an interfering object snap, zoom in and snap back to the reference if I can't use the trim\extend tools. Sounds like a few extra clicks but I think I'm so used to it I just do it without thinking.

[Glenn Woodward]

Brad,

I wasn't advocating having all snaps turned off all the time.
I was advocating being selective with your snaps and only having some of them turned on all of the time.
The only snap you really need to draw a roof plane is On Object.
Although I would normally use On Object and Angle Snaps (which I leave on by default) to draw a roof plane.

I have the Object Snaps (and hence all it's child snap tools) on my tool bar for quick snap toggling.
The main Object Snap icon overides the operation of all the other object snaps.

By default, I have the following snaps toggled on most of the time and I can recall the last time I had something askew.
Angle Snaps
Object Snaps with only Enpoint and On Object Active


Isn't it weird that users ask for all these enhancements and tools, greater options, more alternate settings, but then they complain that the program is not user friendly, too complicated, doesn't work properly, incorrect OOB settings....

[dshall]

..........................

Isn't it weird that users ask for all these enhancements and tools, greater options, more alternate settings, but then they complain that the program is not user friendly, too complicated, doesn't work properly, incorrect OOB settings....

hmmmm, good observation. And many times don't even realize the tool we want is already there, but that's okay, that is how we learn, by asking questions.

[mkennedy]

I'm with Jim on this all the way through. I have a set of snap tools that I leave on, I override object snaps when I see the o-snap icon and I'm looking for an ortho snap. I don't use grid snaps, but I've never had an issue with resize about working properly. Seems like one snap has to override another and I'm used to (and comfortable with) the current system - maybe try setting o snap sensitivity to just one or 2 pixels?
On the other hand, it does seem pretty obvious that a roof plane base line would almost always be par. to a wall? So maybe they should be a special case? Again, I'm used to (and comfortable with) drawing a short roof segement and then using the temp dim to stretch the eaves out past the perp walls. I've been doing this forever, just 'cause I often find it quicker to manually edit\build a roof than to edit walls, build invisible walls, break walls, located gable centers and auto build roofs. Probably a lack of understanding of the roof auto build on my part, but it serves me well in this case.
I don't personally see the need for huge change here and I don't fell that overriding o snaps is a workaround, just 'cause I'm so used to doing, but as an intellectual proposition, I agree, it would be desirable not to have to do it.

[Bradley Boltz]

[QUOTE=mkennedy;459382]I'm with Jim on this all the way through. I have a set of snap tools that I leave on, I override object snaps when I see the o-snap icon and I'm looking for an ortho snap. I don't use grid snaps, but I've never had an issue with resize about working properly. Seems like one snap has to override another and I'm used to (and comfortable with) the current system - maybe try setting o snap sensitivity to just one or 2 pixels?
On the other hand, it does seem pretty obvious that a roof plane base line would almost always be par. to a wall? So maybe they should be a special case? Again, I'm used to (and comfortable with) drawing a short roof segement and then using the temp dim to stretch the eaves out past the perp walls. I've been doing this forever, just 'cause I often find it quicker to manually edit\build a roof than to edit walls, build invisible walls, break walls, located gable centers and auto build roofs. Probably a lack of understanding of the roof auto build on my part, but it serves me well in this case.
I don't personally see the need for huge change here and I don't fell that overriding o snaps is a workaround, just 'cause I'm so used to doing, but as an intellectual proposition, I agree, it would be desirable not to have to do it.[/QUOTE]


Besides the roof plane snap shortcoming & the same when drawing cad lines. Is no one else having issues with pulling a long single dimension thru the center of a plan or along an elevation view and having the dimensinon line snap off of "ortho" to some arbitrary snap point? What do you turn off then? Ortho and/or parallel by default would eliminate a lot of "missfires" and "repulls" of dims, cad, roof planes etc. Take a poll of the rest of us "dumber users".

As far as complaining about having the ability to control all the snaps options, I've never complained about that nor would I want to lose that control. Most users though would like to have the program behave properly by default- "Out of the Box" without having to futz with a lot of settings. Ortho by default would benefit 95% or more of all users.-BB

[mkennedy]

Besides the roof plane snap shortcoming & the same when drawing cad lines. Is no one else having issues with pulling a long single dimension thru the center of a plan or along an elevation view and having the dimensinon line snap off of "ortho" to some arbitrary snap point? What do you turn off then? -BB

I think I just pull the dim string a scoche past the last object I want to dim to, the proximity exceeds the o-snap sensitivity and ortho takes over. I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything, just commenting that I'm comfortable with how it works now. I do wish that I could get lines\plines not to snap to one another unless I want them to. No matter how I draw them, when I start manipulating them they tend to snap to each other.

[Glenn Woodward]

Brad,

I am getting a little confused by your terminology.
You are using Ortho, I think to mean 0° or 90°, but Chief has Orthoginal Extension snap, which is a different concept - it is really a tracking tool.
Chiefs Angle Snap really is what would normally be called an ortho snap.

Can you do a simple plan or video to explain what snaps are causing the problem?

[Bradley Boltz]

Brad,

I am getting a little confused by your terminology.
You are using Ortho, I think to mean 0° or 90°, but Chief has Orthoginal Extension snap, which is a different concept - it is really a tracking tool.
Chiefs Angle Snap really is what would normally be called an ortho snap.

Can you do a simple plan or video to explain what snaps are causing the problem?

"Ortho Lock" in Autocad will lock the cursor so that it will only pull in a horizontal or vertical direction X or Y and while in that mode you can count on your lines or walls or whatever being moved exactly along those axis (0,90,180,270 degree angles). We have as standard, 7.5 or 15 degree increments for our "angle snaps" which would be fine if Chief would stay locked to those angles and not snap out because of some other snap point & cause a wall, cad line, roof plane etc to follow an angle that is not one of the default snap angles.

That's all I'm asking for. If you turn off everything but the "angle snaps" what is the roof base line going to snap to? What wall layer or anything will the roof baseline snap to? I just played with it and it won't snap to anything . BB

[Glenn Woodward]

Brad,

Wel...I see it this way.
Chief has given us all thee different snaps so that we can cover just about every snap situation we want.
All these snaps were probably included becuse users wanted them and complained that their other cad program had them and Chief's cad tools were lacking without them.

You just have to learn how to use the different snaps.
Do you imagine that you can draw all your plans and never change a snap setting?

The roof plan one is easy - as I have already said.
You can either draw them with only On Object snaps, or a combination of Angle Snaps and On Object snaps.
Why would you turn off all snaps except Angle Snaps to draw a roof? - I don't get it!

It really isn't hard to have the tools on a toolbar and all it takes is a couple of clicks to cover the situation you want.
Or you can use the keyboard shortcuts to toggle the snaps - just 1 key press.

Try using just Angle Snaps, Endpoint and On Object snaps toggled on as your standard setup.
This seems to cover most situations. You can then toggle other snaps on as needed or toggle all the snaps on/off with just one click.

You can temporarily toggle all snaps off (except Angle Snaps) during a drawing action by holding down the S key.
You can also leave all your snaps toggled off and use the shortcut keys to activate them during a drawing action.(Endpoint is 4, On Object is 8, Midpoint is 5, etc.)
There are lots of options.

[ebdesign]

Do you imagine that you can draw all your plans and never change a snap setting?

Why not? That's not an unreasonable expectation. I don't think we should have to continually enable/disable snaps. By having to do so, you've made tasks that should be a click/drag into a task that requires a click/drag & several more mouse clicks............& lots of mental acuity. I haven't seen a lot of required monkeying around w/ snaps in other CAD programs. They have an ANGLE lock.

I use point-to-point almost as much as direct entry to move stuff. I have all those snaps enabled because I use them.....a lot. It is much easier to occasionally disable them (for this specific problem) than to try & remember to enable a particular snap before I need it. Different strokes, etc.........
This ANGLE lock that we're describing should be a key that you hold down while dragging that disables any snaps that are "in the area" & would otherwise be available but not exactly along that angle. It should still give you available snaps along that angle to use. There's some kind of heirarchy/priority set.
I run into this most when I draw manual dimensions, lines, & framing. Like Matt says, just drag the dimension, line, framing beyond the snap that causes it to jump off-angle. That works for the single instance, but if you're doing a lot of that, you gotta disable some snaps.

[mkennedy]

This ANGLE lock that we're describing should be a key that you hold down while dragging that disables any snaps that are "in the area" & would otherwise be available but not exactly along that angle. It should still give you available snaps along that angle to use. There's some kind of heirarchy/priority set.
I run into this most when I draw manual dimensions, lines, & framing. Like Matt says, just drag the dimension, line, framing beyond the snap that causes it to jump off-angle. That works for the single instance, but if you're doing a lot of that, you gotta disable some snaps.

Isn't that shift+F11? Or is there a function that shift-F11 misses?

[Glenn Woodward]

Matt,

Shift+F11 toggles snaps on and off - you have to use it again each time you want to toggle the setting.
(By the way, one of my old bugbears is the use of the types of shortcuts that require you to be a contortionist to operate - with one had on the mouse, it's not so easy to use Shift+F11!!!)
The S key used during a drawing action will TEMPORARILY toggle the snaps as long as the S key is held.

Brad seems to be asking for a hybrid situation where he wants object snaps to be available, but only along the direction of the Angle Snap and nowhere else.

[dshall]

.....................
(By the way, one of my old bugbears is the use of the types of shortcuts that require you to be a contortionist to operate - with one had on the mouse, it's not so easy to use Shift+F11!!!).....................

Change the hotkeys my friend, but you already knew that, the response is for others.............. I looovvvveeee the hotkeys.

[Glenn Woodward]

Change the hotkeys my friend, but you already knew that, the response is for others.............. I looovvvveeee the hotkeys.

D. Scott,

Yes, but that's a long way from the functionality of 2 letter (or 1 letter - but you quickly run out of letters) shortcuts the same the old Generic cad.
The 2 keys are pressed sequentially, no Enter needed, logical looking key combinations, etc, etc.....
Pressing 2 keys at the same time does not work in my opinion.

Oh yes, the logic of having a shortcut like Shift+F11 to toggle snaps just slightly escapes me!!
And if I had another hand it would even be easy to use!!