CA for future home builder/owner

[lbuttery]

I find it difficult to think that a legitimate engineer would be taken to court for actually reviewing a drawing drafted by someone not in their office, marking up the drawing with needed revisions and corrections, sending it back to the drafter to draw, then stamping the resultant, reviewed drawing.


Dave:

the "key" is "direct supervision"

what you describe above could very well be acceptable
just keep a "paper trail"

an architect licensed in 3 states said to me that "direct supervision"
could be done solely by email if it could be documented that there was "proof" that the overall instructions came from the architect

sorry for being unclear about "direct supervision"

Lew

[Dave Pitman]

sorry for being unclear about "direct supervision"

No worries about that. In fact, that "subjective" phrase is probably the crux of it. If I were deciding, I would say that drawing (drafting) what is specified by the engineer would mean you are directly supervised by them, else the engineer would have to draft everything themselves.

A clear paper (email) trail is probably a good approach.

On the broader subject, I think that for the majority of people, having a design professional involved is critical for getting the best value. I've also seen first hand design professionals thinking they could actually build some portion of their project themselves to save hiring a professional tradesmen, and it showed. There are also good examples of amateurs designing and/or building nice work.

Good or bad outcomes; It goes both ways.

[William H Lynch]

Lew is correct; however, since you don't need a engineer's stamp, it's a moot point. The engineer is your friend, you have a working relationship, what you pay him is irrelevant. It's your own house, go for it, have fun, learn the software, even if you 'loose' money, the personal reward may be worth it... You may even find a career in it, I did!

Bill

[William H Lynch]

We've been building residential houses off of plans in my area drawn on 'napkins' for years with no problems. The code books are there for a reason, we are not building the "Empire State Building", get a grip!

[SkagitDesign]

Just get the $50 version of Home Designer.

Play with it, if you like it, then get Chief.

That is really what I did. I bought some cheesy Better Homes and Gardens program to design houses. Turns out, it wasn't cheesy, it was really Chief. I drew and played with it, then sent to a friend when I wanted real prints, eventually.

Now, I am still no "Architect", but in our state, I draw, send it the engineer, he redlines, it, I put his redlines on the prints, he sends Calcs, the county is happy. Sometimes they want a letter from him that he engineered it, he did, and provides the letter.

Not rocket science. But any brain surgeon wouldn't be impressed either.

[lbuttery]

James:

since the OP already has some cad experience and plans to do his own CD's
I think he would be better served with $500 HD PRO

the $50 HD products are very limited to doing basic floorplans with the stock library objects

while the $99 or $199 HD products might be ok
only PRO has manual roofs and manual cabinets and manual framing and a 1 page layout tool etc

plus the $500 cost is applied to the upgrade to chief Premier if the OP runs into PRO's limits - which he probably will

Lew

[gawdzira]

Hello Preston,

You are in the right forum to ask this great question.

Yes, I believe that in the next 3 years you could work with Chief part time and become proficient enough to produce some drawings and then move on to the final stages.

Also, yes to your question regarding involving a professional Architect or Designer from the beginning. This will pay off both financially, psychologically and could save your marriage. No joke on the marriage. Building or remodeling a home is often one of the biggest challenges a relationship will face. I have done remodeling for a couple who were both therapists and they concurred.

Have you ever walked into a home and felt like you had just walked into a box with windows and moved from one box to the next? That was designed by a builder. Have you ever walked into a home and felt like your eye was guided where to look and the space welcomed you before exposing you to one surprise after the other as you flowed through the space? That was designed by an Architect.

This is not to say that you may not be a great designer and come up with a beautiful design with wonderful spaces. But, it is important to be honest with yourself. What is your design experience? Do you see well in 3d (without a computer aided model)? Is this a true passion or a cost savings (possibly a false notion) path?

I feel like these are the most important questions. Not whether you choose a $500 program or the legalities of stamping your drawings. And bear in mind, this is only my (rarely) humble opinion.

I wish you success with your project,
Alan

[JJohnson]

....

Hello Preston,
Have you ever walked into a home and felt like you had just walked into a box with windows and moved from one box to the next? That was designed by a builder. Have you ever walked into a home and felt like your eye was guided where to look and the space welcomed you before exposing you to one surprise after the other as you flowed through the space? That was designed by an Architect.

This is not to say that you may not be a great designer and come up with a beautiful design with wonderful spaces. But, it is important to be honest with yourself. What is your design experience? Do you see well in 3d (without a computer aided model)? Is this a true passion or a cost savings (possibly a false notion) path?

Alan

....

Pretty much says it ..

Thanks !

[java tom]

It is rare to meet someone that DOESN'T think they are capable of designing a house. Builders with the napkin plan mentality usually create the worst plans of all. It will result in a plan that is easy to build but not easy to live in. If someone has some cad experience, the way to same money on the plans is to do the construction docs as instructed by the professional designer. Most designers would probably admit that the docs are their least favorite part of a project.

[William H Lynch]

Builders with the napkin plan mentality usually create the worst plans of all. It will result in a plan that is easy to build but not easy to live in.

I beg to disagree, many of my plans start on the 'napkin' so to speak. One of my 'napkin' plans has been built and sold well over a hundred times. A simple, well designed plan that is easy for the builder to understand is what I strive for..., And it sells big time. I can't tell you the number of contractors who asked me to redraw their plans because they are so full of sh**as* details that make the plan unreadable.

Note: I always respect the rights of the original copyright holder in this process, and never reproduce anything without their approval, amazingly I have never had a rejection....

Bill

[java tom]

Thank you for proving my point. You have sold the same plan a hundred times. I'll bet it is the builder and not the homeowner that thinks that is a good idea. Your selling it over and over because it is cheaper for them to do it that way. Ask your self an honest question. Have you ever had a home owner walk in your office and say "I'm interested in the plan that builders have decided works the best for their interests". A plan like that has its place in production houses but not for custom homes. By the way, congratulations on success with that plan. It must indeed be very easy to build.

[moak]

Nicely said Alan

[Kelly K]

Alan, let me echo Jere & Kevin and add very well said.

Preston,

I'll just relay my experience if you are just trying to save money on design costs it is simply a mistake, but if you desire the pride and exhilaration of creating something for yourself, including obtaining a permit to build then go for it. You certainly sound capable, just remember to seek not forsake advice. Oh and keep Alan's advice, that I am restating here, ever mindful.

[plwitt79]

I would like to thank everyone for your insight and knowledge. I know I capable of learning the software and producing plans...i wouldnt let myself fail...the whole part about truely designing a space...i would agree that would be my downside. I know when something looks good and inviting...but not sure if i can just visualize how it all should look. I know my wife and i wanted someone to do the interior design cause we are not great at that part...but was thinking that we may be able to take ideas from architectural or design magazines and reproduce them in the model. So yes we have some things to think about in that department.

Completing the design...creating and printing drawings...getting the permit...my dad and I being the general contractors...seeing it go up...being the most cost effective...moving into our dream house...that sense of accomplishment...YEAH i think it all can be done!

I downloaded the trial version of CA last night...didnt get much time to work with it...so i am gonna try that out...so out intuitive the program is for me...and go from there. More than likely i am going to purchase the software sometime in the future...probably get through the holidays here and then talk about it some more. Might need something to do on Snowy Cold winters here in Nebraska!

Take Care everyone! Be Safe!

Preston

[ivancyr]

Hi Preston,

Just want to encourage you to dive in and have fun. I literally fell into CA. I trained to design GPS approaches for airports and I studied to utilize the full Adobe suite to layer, our engineering data, mapping, and print. I completed this without formal training and on my own time. I unfortunately was transferred after our shop (at the real job) was closed up. Seven years later, and a move across the country I utilized those skills to solve some problems for my brother-in-law who had 3 nagging problems. I did this in about 3 hrs of work enjoying his company watching a hockey game. About a week later he asked me if I could fix another problem and suggested I use CA X4. I dove into it full throttle, spent 3 wks with 2-3 hrs sleep a night (plus kids, plus full time job) and was able to get "product" out to a developer after 3wks that he was happy with. I DO NOT do architecture...I simply use CA as a 3D modelling tool. You can see some of my latest work 6 months later (I did start with HD Pro 2012 and upgraded 3 months later after HD couldn't handle the file sizes and was limited in its export functions) on an earlier thread today.

Which brings me to the only advice I can give. Go through all the tutorials and work from there. Ask all the dumbest questions you want on this forum....people are great...and there are a few champions (Like Lew B. and others) who go over and above for you.

A suggested Order of manufacture:

1. External Walls.
2. Internal Walls that define different floor and ceiling heights.
3. Set those heights in 2 above along with roof zones (and internal walls if required).
4. Remainder of Internal walls.
5. Roof
6. Windows, doors, etc.

...and go from there. Others may have a better idea or suggestions though....most of us here are constantly learning better and more efficient ways.

....and from the #10 motto from Lego Robotics First Lego League (my son loves it)....

HAVE FUN!