Quirky - that is what I am talking about

[johnnyprc]

Doug: One thing I wanted to make clear, I think you guys at CA did a wonderful job with this software. Even though I think Revit and Vectorworks makes better looking drawings, you guys make way better looking 3d models - which I know you focus on (as you say).

HOWEVER, I think the 3d is probably the hard part, and the 2D easy. You guys win the harder, more difficult challenge - but lose the easy fixable aspect of a good CAD app.

Like I said many times - you are a breath away from the very best in everything. Just change the name, since your brand marketing relates "cheap" and "not for professionals". That is far from reality

[sutcac]

Sounds reasonable to me.

[WendyWelton]

Oh dear, am I really going to jump into this discussion? Apparently, I am.

Well here goes. I agree with both. Chief is absolutely suitable for use by "real" architects. And it absolutely is skittish in some ways! Those of us who've been using it for awhile become numb to the skittishness, but it's there. I'm doing a project with curved walls right now, and "skittish" is only one word I've used! Chief works fabulously most of the time, but when it doesn't, it's the stuff of swear jars and/or wig shopping. Split level designs are skittish about holding the off floor heights. Curved walls, curved roofs are skittish about editing.... imnsho, temporary dimensions are very frustrating. I just had a long conversation with Nigel about the inability to control the order of door and window numbers, which gave me a big headache on a my current project, which is big enough that it really does matter that the builder not have to look high and low for Door D30. Some stairs conditions are still very challenging....

So, in my opinion - for one of our breathren to bring up this criticism in a gentlemanly manner is perfectly valid and does not mean he's inept, overpriced or has committed any other mortal sins. He's just calling it like he sees it.

And - I also do still agree with those who say it is suitable for use by us real archies, 'cause I am one and I would still choose Chief again in a heartbeat. All software has it's challenges, and the others have their own skittishnesses.

[WendyWelton]

And I agree about printing, that it's almost certain a printer driver or setting issue - from my experience.

[WendyWelton]

And I agree with whoever said the 2d tools are just very different than the other programs, not so much "skittish". That's a learning curve issue.

Tools being oddly names, etc - now there I agree with the OP. Many things are either located on a menu where only an engineer would think to look, or named oddly....

[WendyWelton]

And back to 2D being a challenge - wall intersections in plan view, if they are not just regular old interior 4 and siding 6 - can be difficult or impossible to get the fill in the layers to give the desired graphics - cad patches are needed in many of those cases. I would feel free to call that "skittish" behavior. I think I'm warming up to that word! It's a criticism, but a softball pitch.

[WendyWelton]

Like I said many times - you are a breath away from the very best in everything. Just change the name, since your brand marketing relates "cheap" and "not for professionals". That is far from reality

OK - my last comment. I disagree with this strongly. That's just an opinion and not one that I think is widely held. I don't think it sounds any less professional than "Softplan" or even "AutoCAD". For whatever reason you formed that association in your mind - and in that way your opinion is as valid as anybody's. But there is nothing inherent in "Chief" or "Architect" or the two words together that's inherently cheap.

And of course there's that long history of brand recognition and loyalty they've already built. "oh that". ;-)

[johnnyprc]

OK - my last comment. I disagree with this strongly. That's just an opinion and not one that I think is widely held. I don't think it sounds any less professional than "Softplan" or even "AutoCAD". For whatever reason you formed that association in your mind - and in that way your opinion is as valid as anybody's. But there is nothing inherent in "Chief" or "Architect" or the two words together that's inherently cheap.

And of course there's that long history of brand recognition and loyalty they've already built. "oh that". ;-)

Well, its not the association in my mind as much as other architects and professionals dropping their jaw when I say I am starting to use Chief Architect. If you see the box for the $59 version sold at Costco and other retailers, it says "Chief Architect" on the upper left side. I have had clients say "I bought Chief Architect to mess around with a floor plan". They expect architects to use professional tools.

I'd invite CA to do a quick study on this issue and see if I am right. Call 50 architects who use other app and see if they realize CA is for professionals or not - or if they view it as a consumer product. My bet is 80-90% think it is a consumer product only. I am suggesting this since I really think CA has something in their software that is better than the rest for 3D.

REALLY, CA should look at taking thier model engine for larger commercial projects. They are a heartbeat away from having something that would work on more complex structures.

[Dave Pitman]

Well, its not the association in my mind as much as other architects and professionals dropping their jaw when I say I am starting to use Chief Architect.

Don't tell them. Use it as your secret weapon. If they don't have it, that makes your toolkit better supplied than theirs!!

[johnnyprc]

Don't tell them. Use it as your secret weapon. If they don't have it, that makes your toolkit better supplied than theirs!!

That has gone through my mind - there is a lot of truth to that idea. CA might not like to hear that, but it is true.

[WendyWelton]

Johnny,

It's almost a moot point, because there's no way on this green earth that they're going to change the name!

It is a marketing issue, but the answer isn't to change the name. Losing the power of the name recognition they've built would be far more harmful than any gain from disassociating from the home designer products. Any corrective action would have to do with simply increasing awareness of the professional tier - and that's something they work on constantly anyway. I don't see anybody having a cow because Auto-whatstheirname makes some sketch products.

[WendyWelton]

btw - like Dave, if I catch any grief from my "peers" (and it tends to be globally because I'm not using an adesk product, not because of what I am using - as if AutoStuff is the only credible cad software company? Please....), I just smile slyly and scurry off to the bank.

Let's put it this way - I hired two people this year because I needed to, and they didn't.

[rcole]

I do agree that it would be great if Chief were to reach out to the professional market a little more than they have in the past.

I am not so sure that you, or the folks you are refering to actually know what Chief is capable of currently. I have attached a pic of some roof and wall framing that I did last week with Chief Framing, Solids, and imported Symbols.

I did this with Chief solids just to see what I could do. Also the model is not completed yet. My take on working with Chief's Solids is that it is kind of like trying to grab a stuffed toy with one of those claw things. The actual tools are impressive, but the user interface is very cumbersome.

From my point of view, Chief has some very powerful tools that are not being developed to their full potential from what I can tell. No argument from me that the CAD tools and dimensioning could stand a bit of polish.

Hopefully this discussion will help to shed some light on the opportunity for Chief and it's customers if it were to take these matters seriously. It appears to me that with X5 they are moving in that direction.

Edit: I just remembered something I read that was published by Autodesk a few years back. They were saying that 90 percent of their users only utilized 10 percent of the capabilties of the program. To me that indicates that most professionals are using basic 2D tools for the most part, 3D is just too complicated. It appears to me that Chief could stand to make inroads into that market by nothing more than improving their CAD tools. The 3D capabilities of Chief would be a very strong motivator to change horses, but probably not without strong CAD tools.

[lbuttery]

The Home products used to be sold under the Broderbund label and then
under the Better Homes and Garden label

it was around 2008/2009 that CA dropped the BHG label

they should find another market label for the Home Products

they should also rename Home Designer PRO as Deluxe or Master

the PRO gives the wrong impression and is cutting into their sales of Chief Premier

Lew

[johnnyprc]

Here's the thing. Chief has done a bad job of making a brand name for the product, and so when you say Chief Architect, that is really just the company name. Autodesk sells AutoCad. Google sells Sketchup. Nemetschek sells Vectorworks.

Chief Architect sells Premier?? They have many products but seem to name more a description than a product. That is poorly done, and makes my clients think when they spend $59 on their Home Designer (or whatever) they use the same product I do. They simply think of it as "Chief Architect" as we have been referencing ourselves here.

That is the point, bad product naming that gets everything mixed into the company name..