Quirky - that is what I am talking about

[johnnyprc]

Thank you Ben. I went to your site and your designs are great....and I agree, having better line control would make the great fundamentals of your designs "pop" in drawing form. I know when the home is done it hardly matters, but I think presenting drawings a certain way is so important.

Your designs/drawings are really good, I am impressed.

[Ben Palmer]

...having better line control would make .. your designs "pop" in drawing form. I know when the home is done it hardly matters, but I think presenting drawings a certain way is so important.

Totally agree.

[fcwilt]

Drawings that are well presented often get less scrutiny

Tricky things, books and their covers.

[johnnyprc]

Looks like this thread is nearly dead, but I think it served its purpose. Chief Architect is awesome! but, we would like to see:

1. Better line control - primarily line weights.
2. Better interface - more modern and better thought to the tools.
3. Better 2D tools in general. This would include what 2D tools can do like map images.

...and if CA wants to come up with a better naming scheme that would be cool, but not high on the needed list. I think that would be better for CA as a company and make architects feel better their software is not just a light upgrade to what their own clients buy at costco. It just happened the other day, a local builder asked me what I used and I didn't mention CA. If the naming thing can change I think many of us will come out of the closet.

[Chad Cardin]

Johnny,

Im still hoping youll show that custom home you had on here earlier but as a vectorview like you posted on your very first elevations. Im interested to see how vectorworks handles a large custom very detailed home.

[Ron Ravenscroft]

Very nice work indeed. I would love to have the kind of control over lines that you describe which results in very distinct clear elevations. I would also love the addition of shadows to the elevations...helps give a sense of depth that many homeowners don't understand with 2d views.

I am on the Design Review Board of the busiest City (permit wise) in the Phoenix area. We require shadows on every project presented: commercial or residential. The line weights are a big pare of that presentation as well. There is a noticeable difference in the quality of drawings presented between each project. Drawings that are well presented often get less scrutiny and those that look less professional leave us wondering if the effort was put forward to create a great product for our city. These are the kinds of drawings we love to see presented to us as we can tell the Architect took care in creating and presenting his project and therefore will finish it in the same manor.

Thank you for your efforts and time in presenting your thoughts on this software. I love when new professionals come on board to help explain the shortcomings. It is new eyes that are needed. I sincerely hope that Chief Architect takes seriously all of your comments as I would welcome 'all' the requests/changes you describe.

Ben

As usual you are "right on"

Ron Ravenscroft

[Ron Ravenscroft]

Looks like this thread is nearly dead, but I think it served its purpose. Chief Architect is awesome! but, we would like to see:

1. Better line control - primarily line weights.
2. Better interface - more modern and better thought to the tools.
3. Better 2D tools in general. This would include what 2D tools can do like map images.

...and if CA wants to come up with a better naming scheme that would be cool, but not high on the needed list. I think that would be better for CA as a company and make architects feel better their software is not just a light upgrade to what their own clients buy at costco. It just happened the other day, a local builder asked me what I used and I didn't mention CA. If the naming thing can change I think many of us will come out of the closet.

I think that Chief coming from an orgin of "House Building" makes it difficult for them to see what you and others have been talking about. As Architects we want to show a design concept of a project as Johnny as shown us. Vectorworks and other programs come from the design side of things. I not sure the present Chief code will allow that, in many ways we are talking about apples and oranges. I fnd myself printing an elevation line drawing, applying makkers then scanning it for a presentation. I have tried the watercoler template but find it limiting.
Chief is still the fastest way to draw a plan, add a roof, and do elevations. I'd love to see the next step in the near future.
Thank you all for a great discussion. We need more like this.

[johnnyprc]

Johnny,

Im still hoping youll show that custom home you had on here earlier but as a vectorview like you posted on your very first elevations. Im interested to see how vectorworks handles a large custom very detailed home.

I'd love to show you what you want, but I am a bit unsure - some of the early elevations I posted is only in that form, I am working on that project right now.

[Chad Cardin]

Johnny,

Oh ok, I didnt want you to go out of your way to make something just to post. I was just curious to see how that larger more detailed home would look like in the elevation format you had the other ones in. No biggie, either way they all look great!

[fcwilt]

in many ways we are talking about apples and oranges.

I believe you are correct. But I think we may be dealing with a change in technology\culture\something.

Think back to the time when scribes labored over desks, copying books by hand, doing beautiful illuminated letters. Now we have printing presses, publication for the masses at low cost, publications scanned into computers and delivered via the internet to e-book readers. Cost, not beauty, drives the mass market.

Blue prints were once blue, then one day along came Xerox and things changed.

Folks used to talk on phones, now it seems, sometimes, that texting is taking over.

The artistic element of this business may be facing a similar change with the advent of fast computers, ink jet printers and software like CA.

I don't think most builders care if someone labored with love and care over a beautiful set of plans - they have work to do and as long as the plans allow that, they are good to go.

Someone, who's name escapes me, said something to the effect that things need to be adequate to the task at hand and no more.

When it comes to providing visuals that allow the customer to understand what is to be built and documents for the builder that allow him to do his job, CA is more then adequate.

In very broad terms the question becomes, does the world, at this point, need anything more, to do what needs to be done?

[johnnyprc]

I don't think most builders care if someone labored with love and care over a beautiful set of plans - they have work to do and as long as the plans allow that, they are good to go.

Taking the drawing appearance out of the argument, its my assertion (along with most architects) the process and attention to these details will result in better design/architecture. Allowing yourself to be engulfed with how everything looks speaks to the kind of work someone does - inevitably resulting in better everything. Call it: honing a meticulous nature. Better drawings also convey better instruction, and could very well lead to the builder grasping something better than he otherwise would.

Also, we are just asking for the tools to make the choice. Programs like Vectorworks, Revit, and others do this - why can't CA. How difficult is it to include better 2d tools? CA does the more difficult things well, I think they can spend a little time on improving things architects would like to see in this program. The comments on this thread show designers/architects would like to see CA improve their 2D tools.

[fcwilt]

Allowing yourself to be engulfed with how everything looks speaks to the kind of work someone does - inevitably resulting in better everything.

I understand that you believe this to be true - and you may well be right - however, based on my experience, I do not believe it to be true to a meaningful degree.

That said, I am ALL in favor of anything that will attract more customers to CA - so if better 2D tools will do that, let's add 'em - the sooner the better!

[Doug Park]

Two observations that I'm taking away from this thread.

1) The ability to specify a different end cap style for certain lines.

2) The ability to create profile lines that show at a different weight.

A comment on 1). In general it is very difficult to get lines to look right when they join at odd angles using a square end cap. That is why rounded ends are used. For 90 degree corners they look good, everything else becomes a problem. We could easily switch to a different end cap style but we can't use that in all cases or the drawings will really look bad.

Pen plotters produce rounded end caps just because that is the way they worked. To a large degree CAD has been influenced by pen plotters.

It is probably time for us to think about places where we can use different end cap styles to improve the drawing precision.

[johnnyprc]

Thanks Doug for taking the time to read this. I think your observations are a great start. The only thing I would add is to look at some 2D tools that might help product quick little drawings without the need for 3D model creation.

That might not be Chief's focus, but currently I feel I need 2 CAD systems, since CA does 3D so well, but VectorWorks does 2D so well.

...but yes, profiles and how lines are finished would help a lot.