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09-12-2012, 05:30 PM #1
15-20 k bill? Are you nuts? Are you designing a 30 unit apartment complex or a 2000 sf addition. I too would question your billing..... Are you nuts? Why don't you show us an example of your work. what do you mean by skittish, please be a bit more specific or lose all credibility, thank you.
D. Scott Hall (The Bridge Troll)
San Diego, Ca.
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09-12-2012, 05:39 PM #2
I'd pretty much have to support my colleagues above. Yes, most architects don't use Chief, but it's mostly because they just don't know any better, run with the herd, and/or fall for the behemoth marketing budget of Autodesk. I have a good number of projects that top the $15-20K range and I get no complaints from clients about my drawings, renderings, or the 3D experience they get in the design process. Most are AMAZED.
Two words- USER and ERROR
Bryce Engstrom: Architect, LEED AP
www.engstromarchitecture.com
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09-17-2012, 10:20 AM #3Grumpy Old User
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Ron Ravenscroft
RAVENSCROFT ARCHITECTS, LTD.
20611 N. 17th WAy
Phoenix, Arizona 85024
623-434-0092 - 480-797-6894
rrarchpa@cox.net or ron@raltd.net
Version4 to X5 and beyond
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09-17-2012, 11:48 AM #4Registered User Promoted
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I used to keep a little note next to my computer screen to remind myself to not get too wrapped up in creating complex 3D models.
The note read "Lines on Paper = Dollars"
It is no wonder to me that good CAD tools are considered such an important aspect of a professional CAD system.Rod Cole
V2 thru X5
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09-18-2012, 07:16 AM #5Just Some Guy
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09-18-2012, 08:14 AM #6Registered User Promoted
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Yes, that is very true, and I agree that printing from a model is by far the better way to go.
For me that is even the case for concept applications. Crank the model and go. In that sense 2D tools are best used for final edits to elevations and documentation.
There is another application for good 2D tools that should not be overlooked. That is the creation of custom 3D objects. I have attached a custom window surround that I did yesterday.
I could have done this in CA using the tools available, but it would have taken way longer and been much harder to work with. In this case I used 2D profiles to create the 3D geometry that makes up the Symbol object in Chief.
I see also that I want to change a few things on the surround. Again, easy in another app, but a pain using Chief. Walls, window, paneling, and custom chair rail in Chief, but the custom surround was done in another app.
Just saying that it would be nice if Chief stepped up and gave us a few tools that worked in a more traditional fashion. The reason I use other apps is because I have found that it is easier get the model done by what ever means required to get it right than to fight with Chief.
Back then I would use CAD tools to fix problems with the model rather than fight with Chiefs automatic modeling features. Now I use other programs in order to solve that problem. Why, because they have better 2D tools that I can use to create 3D models. 2D tools are fundamental to 3D modeling in many ways.
Edit: Creating complex models is not as difficult for me now as it was then, but that is mostly because I don't use CA for those situations any more. Even with features such as Ray Tracing, unless your business is producing renderings, we still get paid mostly for putting lines on paper. Good modeling tools and good CAD tools are both very important to me in order to produce work in a timely manner.Last edited by rcole; 09-18-2012 at 08:26 AM.
Rod Cole
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09-18-2012, 09:04 AM #7Just Some Guy
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I would think that to create custom 3D objects you would need a program that would work in 3D. How does one create 3D objects in a 2D program?
I like DeWalt tools but they don't always make the tool I need - then I need to go with another brand. Sort of the same situation - CA will likely never be able to be all things to all people.Regards, Frederick C. Wilt (Began with v9, now using X6 aka v16)
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09-17-2012, 06:08 PM #8
I would say architects want to have the feel and ability to "purely design/draw", almost like they did with traditional media. In a large way that is why Sketchup has done well, along with the newer Vectorworks - 3D with freedom.
With the QUIRKY elements CA still has, it doesn't allow you to get into a design flow easy, having to always think of: "what was that work-around again"....
That said CA is still better OVERALL than the others. Many things you can't do obviously with Sketchup...X5
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09-18-2012, 08:20 AM #9Grumpy Old User
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I want to applaud you for the way you have conducted this discussion. I tend to get off track sometimes to my disadvantage. I use Chief in a different way, I do my preliminary design with a sketchpad, then I Start a Chief model. Once the model is approved by the Client I export the plans, sections and elevations to VirsaCad via DWG. VCAD is still a 2D program but I can finish a better set of ConDocs with it. That is not to say some of the users produce great drawings with Chief. My guess is that they are willing to spend more time on the program that I am. I have attempted a couple of small project entirely with Chief. I found myself drawing details in VCAD and importing them to Chief due to faster 2D in VCAD. ART was dropped a few years ago, it may be time to get chief going in a more Architect friendly direction. I mentioned areas for improvement the other day, there are more such as metal studs, hollow metal door frames, etc.
Ron
Ron Ravenscroft
RAVENSCROFT ARCHITECTS, LTD.
20611 N. 17th WAy
Phoenix, Arizona 85024
623-434-0092 - 480-797-6894
rrarchpa@cox.net or ron@raltd.net
Version4 to X5 and beyond