Roof planes

[dshall]

Another way of showing where it's off.....In the jpg, the auto generated roof shows the overhang at 18" in one area and 18 13/16" in another. The shaded area needs to move in the -Y direction 13/16". Make sure to align the 2nd floor walls, to the walls you moved below. Then, it auto generates correctly.

Attachment 54632

Interesting. I wonder how this would change if I had 9' default plate heights at first floor and 8' default plates at second floor
What about 8' default plates at first floor at first floo and 9' defaults at second floor.
What would happen if both first and second floor plate heights were at 8'
What would happen if I had 8' plates at first floor and 16' defaults at second floor....... Would I get two separate roof planes?
What about 9' default plate heights at first floor and 5' default plate heights at second floor? Would the first floor roof cover the second floor roof?

Of course all these questions are assuming auto roofs.

The point is, whenever we explore the behaviors of CA, sometimes it is helpful to take it to extremes to fully understand what is going on.

[lbuttery]

Scott:

keep in mind that all of the HD products can ONLY use the auto roof gen
except for PRO

here is a starter help article on doing various roof styles via the auto gen
http://www.homedesignersoftware.com/...?faqNumber=359

there are many more complex help articles on the HD website and the chief website plus all the training videos on chief's website

Lew

[Joe Carrick]

Interesting. I wonder how this would change if I had 9' default plate heights at first floor and 8' default plates at second floor
What about 8' default plates at first floor at first floo and 9' defaults at second floor.
What would happen if both first and second floor plate heights were at 8'
What would happen if I had 8' plates at first floor and 16' defaults at second floor....... Would I get two separate roof planes?
What about 9' default plate heights at first floor and 5' default plate heights at second floor? Would the first floor roof cover the second floor roof?

Of course all these questions are assuming auto roofs.

The point is, whenever we explore the behaviors of CA, sometimes it is helpful to take it to extremes to fully understand what is going on.

Scott,

It would all depend on Geometry (including Roof Pitch or the Club being used)

[dshall]

Scott:

keep in mind that all of the HD products can ONLY use the auto roof gen
except for PRO

here is a starter help article on doing various roof styles via the auto gen
http://www.homedesignersoftware.com/...?faqNumber=359

there are many more complex help articles on the HD website and the chief website plus all the training videos on chief's website

Lew

Lew, do you really think I care about HD? Lew, you must be kidding, do you think someone needs to teach me about roofs? Please, somebody correct me, please. I understand roofs, please, somebody teach me where I am wrong, I will grovel at your feet, I want to know f I am wrong, I know roofs, somebody please prove that I have made an incorrect statement. No braggadocio, just trying to get to the facts folks, THAT IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT!

[dshall]

Scott,

It would all depend on Geometry (including Roof Pitch or the Club being used)

I agree with you Joe. Joe, I am close to beating you. My putting is pretty good, wedges have really improved, iron tee shot is 50 50, the driver a pretty consistent 220 yards. I think I am getting close to surpass your skills, maybe next week at my home course, in fact, if you beat me I will pay for the round.

[ambrozac]

Even though the roof appears to generate correctly, in the last jpg I submitted, I don't think it frames the rafters correctly, for the 2nd floor. I think Joe mentioned the garage plates would need to be raised and I believe that to be correct.

[lbuttery]

no thinking involved, simply hit the build roof button and all is well

Scott:

I guess you were joking when you said this then ???

sorry, if I mis-understood your level of experience with the auto-roof gen

some chiefers never bothered with it and went straight to manual roofs

Lew

[Joe Carrick]

Even though the roof appears to generate correctly, in the last jpg I submitted, I don't think it frames the rafters correctly, for the 2nd floor. I think Joe mentioned the garage plates would need to be raised and I believe that to be correct.

Lowered, not raised.

[Joe Carrick]

I agree with you Joe. Joe, I am close to beating you. My putting is pretty good, wedges have really improved, iron tee shot is 50 50, the driver a pretty consistent 220 yards. I think I am getting close to surpass your skills, maybe next week at my home course, in fact, if you beat me I will pay for the round.

So are you ready to spot me the difference in our ages? :Sly:

[dshall]

So are you ready to spot me the difference in our ages? :Sly:

No, I will not give you 58 strokes.

[Joe Carrick]

No, I will not give you 58 strokes.

So now I know how much older your are......

[ambrozac]

Lowered, not raised.

I don't have X5 to view what you & Scott had posted. However, when I framed the roof, the rafters were too low on the 2nd Floor plate, but fit correctly over the garage. Therefore, it appeared to me that the whole roof needs to be raised, which will raise the garage plates?

[ebdesign]

As others have said, it's a basic geometry problem. But, what the heck, it was interesting.
The 2nd flr wall on the right is set back 9'-3" from the 1st flr garage wall on the left. Given equal roof properties & a 9/12 slope, the total rise is 110.25". That means that the absolute ceiling/plate hgts of those two walls/rooms need to have a difference of 110.25" (& roof baselines- assuming the base lines are over the wall main layer) The 2nd flr room had an assigned plate hgt (default) that was 5/8" too low. That is why Chief was generating two different roof planes w/ a small hip roof section coming up from the right side gable wall. Chief was just building what it was told to build given the room/wall properties. When the default ceiling/plate hgt for flr2 was raised 5/8", auto roofs worked perfectly. If raising the 2nd floor ceiling plate hgt is not gonna happen, then the difference would have to be made up w/ the rafter heel cut over one of the two walls......or one of the walls have to move (probably the garage wall- as Joe said).

There were plenty of "traps" in this plan that had to be dealt w/ before I got comfortable; the dimensional properties of the walls, auto & manual dimension locate properties. I turned on the tilde to see any dimensions that were not exactly what they said. The 2nd flr main front wall (in front of entertainment room) was not exactly co-linear w/ the short wall on the other end of the gable. The rear wall is 3 different walls which needed to be made co-linear. All this to be sure that the dimensions were locating what was assumed.
Fun little exercise.
Plan attached.
Jim

[Joe Carrick]

FWIW, if you simply change the roof pitch to 8-15/16" per foot it will work perfectly with your original plan without changing any plate heights or moving any walls.

I did not find any misalignment of the 2nd floor walls. I know there was a lot of discussion about this but I didn't see it in the plan when I opened it in X5. One way to check that is to open the Garage dbx and uncheck "Roof over this Room". Then rebuild the Roof Planes and look at the 2nd Floor Roof. It's perfect.

[dshall]

All I want to know is what mjrs thinks about this mess he started.