Chief Vs Autocad

[perryh]

Richard
Yes ,I also did that, except I got it free.

[perryh]

Lew, Architecture school did not teach real life when I went. I had 6 year Architecture students working for me and I had to teach them very basic stuff. Life experience is king, there's nothing better, of course this argument goes on forever.

[lbuttery]

Perry:

I agree, everybody can learn from everybody

no can know "everything"

I would be just as interested in studying your CD's as I would an architects

would I put more "trust" in architects - ???

who knows - I've been know to go against the grain

Lew

[sutcac]

Just because anyone is an Architect doesn't mean anything.

Classic. You think Doug is insulting you (which he isn't) and so you insult US. Yeesh.

[dshall]

.................Of course, you also have to put up with incessant posts about golf, and sometimes snarkiness (and I'm not claiming to be blameless here), which the ArchiCAD-Talk forum doesn't have. In general, though, I think this forum is an invaluable asset that should be heavily counted in Chief's favor.

Richard is absolutely correct here. In fact, I am sure this comment was aimed in my direction, guilty as charged. But I will say that with any active forum, there will always be some comments or posts that are not interesting to some. And the more one posts, the odds are the greater number of useless or what can be perceived as snarky comments there are, there are already a few snarky comments in this thread.

I have been on a few other forums, but this one is by far the best I have been on when it comes to getting answers to your question. There are many people here who take their time to help others, not only for the sake of helping others, but also because it helps them to better understand the program.

I consider the folks on this forum part of my extended family, and with all families, there are a few conflicts. Many times I have thought of bailing on this forum because somebody hurt my little feelings, but that is on me. Bottom line, this forum and what I learn from this forum is invaluable to me. I appreciate the help I get from all of the participants on this forum, from the power users to the newbies, they all have something to contribute, which benefits.............. who?.............. mi, mi, mi.

Hey Joe, see you at 2:00 for the round of golf.

[Ron Ravenscroft]

You can model anything with Chief. Sloping walls can be a bit of a challenge, but some users have devised a way to do it. Chief blows Archicad away.

I don't think so, have you ever looked at the way Archicad handles Construction Docs.

[perryh]

Classic. You think Doug is insulting you (which he isn't) and so you insult US. Yeesh.

Not at all. all i'm saying is my input is just as valid as yours.

[BuilderBen]

[*]A general overall impression I have is that Archicad makes few assumptions to honor an ability to create any building type. This requires the user to create and define the things that are not assumed. Chief, being designed for the custom residential/light commercial market I operate in, makes many assumptions (framing approach, floor constructions, etc..) that relate directly to my end goal. I can rely on much of the automated features and easily create the custom conditions when needed.

That is an interesting aspect that I will keep in mind going forward. In a way fulfilling the old desire that BIM should be an aid in construction decisions, and not only be a 3D environment for CAD.

Have to agree that the forum seems second to none, the interaction and generosity is very impressive and encouraging.

I just found and played with the House wizard, absolutely brilliant. After scribbling on paper for years I started doing bubble diagram in Illustrator in order to keep it more to scale, but this is really handy for area calculations and fast concepts. Then being able to convert it a floor plan was just too much fun!

Still yet not entirely happy or understanding details though. So when I do a "CAD detail from view" it actually copies that whole section? Fine, that doesn't seem logical to me but so be it. However, after doing an Auto detail (which is convenient) the fills (and every line) is then 'super exploded' when I get to the detail view? Can't I keep editing for example insulation? This one I just have to misunderstand, or I don't see the point of sending a view to a CAD detail.

Ben

[RMorrison]

Lew, Architecture school did not teach real life when I went. I had 6 year Architecture students working for me and I had to teach them very basic stuff. Life experience is king, there's nothing better, of course this argument goes on forever.

This only goes on because of people who think that knowing how to build equates to knowing how to design, or vice versa. Both abilities are essential.

[sutcac]

Life experience is king, there's nothing better....

...... all i'm saying is my input is just as valid as yours.

Apparently you don't see the irony here. "Real world" experience can also blind you to new and innovative design solutions. One of the main points of going to school is to immerse yourself in pure design for a while, learn the history of your profession, etc. before your creativity gets bogged down and you start thinking it's all been done and there is never anything new.

[William H Lynch]

Apparently you don't see the irony here. "Real world" experience can also blind you to new and innovative design solutions. One of the main points of going to school is to immerse yourself in pure design for a while, learn the history of your profession, etc. before your creativity gets bogged down and you start thinking it's all been done and there is never anything new.

I started in the school of design at NCSU, And yes, It was exactly as you said, I was immersed in pure design for two years , but I found it lacking, I felt like something was missing, the science behind the creativity was void....

I transferred to engineering to learn the science behind the design, and yet there was still something missing, and that was real life experience.

I found that 'practical' creativity is best 'learned' from real life experiences gathered from the wealth of knowledge surrounding you. The people who use or build your designs are a valuable resource. There is a economic limit (in most cases) on what is creative vs. what is practical. It is a dilemma I was not taught in school.

My first job was with a large Power Utility as an engineer. I spent a month with a line crew, high school educated guys out there in the field implementing the 'designs' and 'procedures' we engineers provided. These guys were a resource that I learned quickly to respect and value.

Long story short, creativity alone is somewhat subjective (everyone has something to contribute, we just need to listen) the vast resources out there are immense, regardless of education level, regardless of background, put your education on hold and listen to the voices of 'real life experience'... we can all benefit! So I have to go with Perry's comment "Life experience is king!"

Bill

PS: My brother is battling Parkinson's disease and severe dementia associated with it. But sometimes he makes remarkable statements about life and how to live it that leave me totally dumbfounded and in awe...

[sutcac]

I also had a lot of "real life" experience, working as a carpenter part time during the school year in college, and full time each summer. I got my general contractor's license 12 years before I got my architect's license and spent most of that time as a design-build contractor. So I have seen it from both sides and I can almost always tell the difference between a designer that never had any formal education, and one that has taken the time and made the kind of commitment becoming a licensed architect requires, just be seeing their work. And I can even see within myself how the "that's the way it has always been done" mentality you can pick up from "real life" can block you from coming up with something more creative and innovative. And I don't just mean pretty details and sexy design. It can mean something as simple as spatial and functional relationships within a plan.

I can't tell you the number of people that tell me they regret never having gone to college and gotten their degree, and more specifically ones who "wanted to be an architect" but "couldn't handle the math" or "couldn't handle the long hours of time in design lab", or any number of other reasons. Once you "put your education on hold", you often can never get back to it because "real life" gets in the way. I watched this happen to someone I worked for on and off for 6 years. He has a lot of regrets I think as he has seen me move on and do what he always wanted to.

Yes, both have their place but neither is "king", that is just silly.

[BuilderBen]

Architecture school is slightly more than creativity though, and being a licensed architect involves more than going to school.

Besides regular classes in history, structural and green technology, lighting, mechanical, methods of construction, contracts, urban theory there are admittedly also 'creative' classes on subjects such as spatial composition, design process, perspective, etc. But most of all, the programs are connected by studios, which is where students iteratively have to design, and redesign, and redesign, solutions to different problems judged by critical instructors that are virtually impossible to please.

After that you take seven relatively in depth exams in all sorts of areas, such as schematic design, structural systems, building methods, site planning, etc.

Finally you have to work as an intern for typically 5 years under an architect, so I do think you get some life experience in the process.

Chief seems to be an amazing tool that has served builders well for a long time, but reaching a wider audience it certainly can't hurt to get some feedback from the architectural side as well, right?

Ben

[sutcac]

Yeah, you beat me to that part of it Ben. I remember quite clearly using calculus to solve steel moment frames at the culmination of 2 full years of structural engineering classes (after two years before that of just plain math pre-requisites), so there is quite a lot of very rigorous science and math involved in a degree in architecture too. It's not all just fluffy theory.

[johnnyprc]

I personally really appreciate what Doug said, and I feel it was more towards designers/architects....meaning those who design only and don't build (design-build). I really don't think he was trying to exclude pro designers. We were all designers at one point before becoming architects.

CA will be better served looking to professionals who design for a living. Permitting around here is getting brutal, and I don't know many builders who even take this process on without professional help.