Chief Vs Autocad

[perryh]

Lew, Architecture school did not teach real life when I went. I had 6 year Architecture students working for me and I had to teach them very basic stuff. Life experience is king, there's nothing better, of course this argument goes on forever.

[lbuttery]

Perry:

I agree, everybody can learn from everybody

no can know "everything"

I would be just as interested in studying your CD's as I would an architects

would I put more "trust" in architects - ???

who knows - I've been know to go against the grain

Lew

[RMorrison]

Lew, Architecture school did not teach real life when I went. I had 6 year Architecture students working for me and I had to teach them very basic stuff. Life experience is king, there's nothing better, of course this argument goes on forever.

This only goes on because of people who think that knowing how to build equates to knowing how to design, or vice versa. Both abilities are essential.

[sutcac]

Life experience is king, there's nothing better....

...... all i'm saying is my input is just as valid as yours.

Apparently you don't see the irony here. "Real world" experience can also blind you to new and innovative design solutions. One of the main points of going to school is to immerse yourself in pure design for a while, learn the history of your profession, etc. before your creativity gets bogged down and you start thinking it's all been done and there is never anything new.

[Ron Ravenscroft]

Lew, Architecture school did not teach real life when I went. I had 6 year Architecture students working for me and I had to teach them very basic stuff. Life experience is king, there's nothing better, of course this argument goes on forever.

I wish we all could be as smart as you sir.

[Ron Ravenscroft]

Lew, Architecture school did not teach real life when I went. I had 6 year Architecture students working for me and I had to teach them very basic stuff. Life experience is king, there's nothing better, of course this argument goes on forever.

Perry,

I think that is true for any college program. Most graduates are of limited use in the real world until they gain experience.

[lbuttery]

Perry:

Hmmm, I don't feel insulted ???

I think Doug's comments are on point

You know I have been one to defend the right of non-architects to do designs

but I also appreciate that I have learned from watching the architects
and will continue to learn from them

I am certain that there are things they know that I am not even aware of

I firmly believe that CA should have a team of architects (SME's) that they can
consult with preping the next release to ensure that the features are desirable

same for engineers and landscapers and K&B and deck designers etc

CA should pick a famous architect school and code Chief to do "everything" that school does

adding two or three schools would even be better
I'm sure west coast schools have a different focus than east coast schools

Lew

[sutcac]

Just because anyone is an Architect doesn't mean anything.

Classic. You think Doug is insulting you (which he isn't) and so you insult US. Yeesh.

[perryh]

Classic. You think Doug is insulting you (which he isn't) and so you insult US. Yeesh.

Not at all. all i'm saying is my input is just as valid as yours.

[RMorrison]

Our customer base is dominated by design/build professionals.

However, architects do influence our design decisions significantly. I like to push for features that are more requested by architects because they really do know what they are doing when it comes to design and are asking for things that some of our design/build professionals don't know they need. For example the space planning tools (House Wizard) is something that most architects recognize immediately as a valuable design aid.

As we move forward I believe that the influence from architects will greatly improve the quality of the program.

Oh, Doug, you know just what to say! ;-)

[Ron Ravenscroft]

Our customer base is dominated by design/build professionals.

However, architects do influence our design decisions significantly. I like to push for features that are more requested by architects because they really do know what they are doing when it comes to design and are asking for things that some of our design/build professionals don't know they need. For example the space planning tools (House Wizard) is something that most architects recognize immediately as a valuable design aid.

As we move forward I believe that the influence from architects will greatly improve the quality of the program.

With all due respect, from my view it possibly the opposite. Being able to complete Construction drawings without a few work-a-rounds is a real problem for me. Schedules are mostly useless with quite a bit of effort. My latest thorn is know Chief treats pocket doors and gives an incorrect header size. I'm not a programmer but it seems a couple lines of code would solve the problem. I think Dan you should do a soul searching look at chief and find ways to simplify chief. for example if I want transparent text and dimension numbers I should be able to say so with 1 DBX for the entire program. As one who has been using Chief since version 4 I feel that Chief has vastly improved. But this improvement is at the expense of complexity.
And last of all lets get off the chip on the shoulder with the Designer/Architect thing. We all are here to use a tool and to complete projects. We all can learn from each other. I, as an architect have learned many useful things from our designer friends.

[perryh]

Richard
Yes ,I also did that, except I got it free.

[sutcac]

I also had a lot of "real life" experience, working as a carpenter part time during the school year in college, and full time each summer. I got my general contractor's license 12 years before I got my architect's license and spent most of that time as a design-build contractor. So I have seen it from both sides and I can almost always tell the difference between a designer that never had any formal education, and one that has taken the time and made the kind of commitment becoming a licensed architect requires, just be seeing their work. And I can even see within myself how the "that's the way it has always been done" mentality you can pick up from "real life" can block you from coming up with something more creative and innovative. And I don't just mean pretty details and sexy design. It can mean something as simple as spatial and functional relationships within a plan.

I can't tell you the number of people that tell me they regret never having gone to college and gotten their degree, and more specifically ones who "wanted to be an architect" but "couldn't handle the math" or "couldn't handle the long hours of time in design lab", or any number of other reasons. Once you "put your education on hold", you often can never get back to it because "real life" gets in the way. I watched this happen to someone I worked for on and off for 6 years. He has a lot of regrets I think as he has seen me move on and do what he always wanted to.

Yes, both have their place but neither is "king", that is just silly.

[Ron Ravenscroft]

I also had a lot of "real life" experience, working as a carpenter part time during the school year in college, and full time each summer. I got my general contractor's license 12 years before I got my architect's license and spent most of that time as a design-build contractor. So I have seen it from both sides and I can almost always tell the difference between a designer that never had any formal education, and one that has taken the time and made the kind of commitment becoming a licensed architect requires, just be seeing their work. And I can even see within myself how the "that's the way it has always been done" mentality you can pick up from "real life" can block you from coming up with something more creative and innovative. And I don't just mean pretty details and sexy design. It can mean something as simple as spatial and functional relationships within a plan.

I can't tell you the number of people that tell me they regret never having gone to college and gotten their degree, and more specifically ones who "wanted to be an architect" but "couldn't handle the math" or "couldn't handle the long hours of time in design lab", or any number of other reasons. Once you "put your education on hold", you often can never get back to it because "real life" gets in the way. I watched this happen to someone I worked for on and off for 6 years. He has a lot of regrets I think as he has seen me move on and do what he always wanted to.

Yes, both have their place but neither is "king", that is just silly.

Well said my friend!

[BuilderBen]

Architecture school is slightly more than creativity though, and being a licensed architect involves more than going to school.

Besides regular classes in history, structural and green technology, lighting, mechanical, methods of construction, contracts, urban theory there are admittedly also 'creative' classes on subjects such as spatial composition, design process, perspective, etc. But most of all, the programs are connected by studios, which is where students iteratively have to design, and redesign, and redesign, solutions to different problems judged by critical instructors that are virtually impossible to please.

After that you take seven relatively in depth exams in all sorts of areas, such as schematic design, structural systems, building methods, site planning, etc.

Finally you have to work as an intern for typically 5 years under an architect, so I do think you get some life experience in the process.

Chief seems to be an amazing tool that has served builders well for a long time, but reaching a wider audience it certainly can't hurt to get some feedback from the architectural side as well, right?

Ben