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Thread: The dsh Terrain Building Test
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01-21-2012, 01:57 PM #1
Scott:
how do I get the contour #'s large enough to read so I can post a pic ???
my contours match yours exactly
I have also attached the challenge plan with the foundation built
I never noticed that when using auto-calc that chief displays/updates the
"Pad elevation"
Thus, I have attached pics showing the "pad elevation" without a foundation as I posted in my first plan earlier today
and a pic of the "pad elevation" with a foundation as in this latest plan
time to head to the funeral (friend's cousin)
LewLew Buttery
Castle Golden Design - "We make dreams visible"
Lockport, NY
716-434-5051
www.castlegoldendesign.com
lbuttery at castlegoldendesign.com
CHIEF X5 (started with v9.5)
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01-21-2012, 01:59 PM #2D. Scott Hall (The Bridge Troll)
San Diego, Ca.
Chief X-5 w/ Win 7
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The videos we watch are not 100% gold, but if we find a gold nugget, the time spent viewing has a value.
We can please some of the people some of the time, but we can't please all the people all of the time..... but I will keep trying.
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01-21-2012, 01:58 PM #3
I tried to use your numbers not Lew's
Perry
P.H. DESIGNS L.L.C.
Eastvale Calif.
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01-21-2012, 01:58 PM #4
Since no one is going to bother to read this post anyway, I can say what I want.
LET me attempt to clear up some of Scott's confusion and some others.
There is NO such thing in chief as TP (Terrain Perimeter) elevation. So there is nothing to set. All references are (fixed) to 0 -- assumed to be sea level. It CANNOT be changed. This has been explained before and generally does not cause a problem except to surveyors and builders who usually reference to a local marker. if you have no terrain , terrain level is assumed to be zero, if you have a terrain, it's whatever the elevation data says it is (default 0) , always in relation to 0 (sea level ).
Pad elevation is related to wherever the center point bottom foundation level is to its location on the terrain surface. And is given in relation to 0 - sea level - explained before.
Contour elevations are +- to sea level 0.
Everything is Okey-Dokey unless you get surveyor's data referenced to a local Surveyor's marker level, thus the confusion between sea level and elevation data. You CAN NOT bias the 0 point (sea level).Gerry
NewCraft Home Services
Design/ Compliance Review
PE, X6 , Sketchup 8, TurboCad Pro 20
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ASUS P9X79D, i7-3820, GTX680 w/4gb
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If the Government would just cut down more d*** trees, I'd have a much better view of the forest.
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01-21-2012, 02:01 PM #5
Gerry:
I agree....
I may not be saying it correctly but I agree with your info
LewLew Buttery
Castle Golden Design - "We make dreams visible"
Lockport, NY
716-434-5051
www.castlegoldendesign.com
lbuttery at castlegoldendesign.com
CHIEF X5 (started with v9.5)
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01-21-2012, 02:04 PM #6D. Scott Hall (The Bridge Troll)
San Diego, Ca.
Chief X-5 w/ Win 7
Asus P6T X58 ATX Core i7
Intel Core i7 920
6GB (3X2) DDR3 1600
NVIDIA GeForce 580 GTX
The videos we watch are not 100% gold, but if we find a gold nugget, the time spent viewing has a value.
We can please some of the people some of the time, but we can't please all the people all of the time..... but I will keep trying.
If you are interested in keeping abreast of any new videos, please subscribe to my channel at YOUTUBE...... channel is ds hall
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01-21-2012, 02:13 PM #7Gerry
NewCraft Home Services
Design/ Compliance Review
PE, X6 , Sketchup 8, TurboCad Pro 20
-----------------------------------
ASUS P9X79D, i7-3820, GTX680 w/4gb
-----------------------------
If the Government would just cut down more d*** trees, I'd have a much better view of the forest.
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01-21-2012, 08:20 PM #8
Gerry,
I agree with the thrust of what you say - there is no such thing as Terrain Perimeter Elevation.
But, I'm not sure that we are talking semantics here, but I see things a bit differently.
I think of all levels set in relation to chiefs zero floor level - nothing to do with "sea level" - does a negative elevation mean the building is below sea level? - not very realistic.
I can have relative levels (relative to Chiefs zero floor level) by specifying minus levels for below Chiefs zero floor level and positive levels for above Chiefs zero floor level.
I can have absoulte levels by specifying a Pad Elevation at an actual elevation and then terrain levels at actual elevations (but, everything still remains relative!).
If there is any confusion, have a look at the 3 plans I attached in a previous post - no mention of sea level, not a wave in sight (or should that be site).
Oh, one other thing, when you say: "if you have no terrain , terrain level is assumed to be zero, if you have a terrain, it's whatever the elevation data says it is (default 0) , always in relation to 0 (sea level ).
Once again, what has it got to do with sea level?
In these situations isn't terrain level whatever the formula is (eg: -6" - floor thickness below Chiefs zero), and not zero.
I think we are agreeing but just seeing things from a different frame of reference or relativity.
The main point being that I have no confusion about terrain levels and things all work great as they are!Glenn
Chief X5
www.glennwoodward.com.au
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01-21-2012, 09:03 PM #9
think of all levels set in relation to chiefs zero floor level - nothing to do with "sea level" - does a negative elevation mean the building is below sea level? - not very realistic
Glenn:
chief's manual discusses sea level
in the real world all absolute terrain data is based on sea level
by default chief works with relative height values for the terrain elevations (set via elevation data such as regions)
then it auto-calcs the "pad elevation"
when auto-calc is off and a "pad elevation" is entered that value is an absolute value per sea
with auto calc on the house "rides" the terrain like a BOAT
the house elevations are relative within the BOAT, yet the boat is at an ABSOLUTE value in relation to the elevation data
and the "pad elevation" per sea level
with auto calc off the connection between the house and terrain is broken
after that each MUST be set separately
if the elevation data (such as regions) is changed and the "pad elevation" is left at zero the house remains at sea level
with auto calc off and adding no elevation data (such as regions) the TP will remain at its default of 0" sea level
change the "pad elevation" to 50' and the house will be in the air at 50' above sea level
read the sea level references in the manual
LewLast edited by lbuttery; 01-21-2012 at 09:28 PM.
Lew Buttery
Castle Golden Design - "We make dreams visible"
Lockport, NY
716-434-5051
www.castlegoldendesign.com
lbuttery at castlegoldendesign.com
CHIEF X5 (started with v9.5)
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01-21-2012, 09:20 PM #10
Glenn:
I have attached the manual's references to sea level
LewLew Buttery
Castle Golden Design - "We make dreams visible"
Lockport, NY
716-434-5051
www.castlegoldendesign.com
lbuttery at castlegoldendesign.com
CHIEF X5 (started with v9.5)
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01-21-2012, 02:11 PM #11
Yes, t.p. can be changed very easily. The contour lines stay the same though.
Last edited by perryh; 01-21-2012 at 02:13 PM.
Perry
P.H. DESIGNS L.L.C.
Eastvale Calif.
Alienware, liquid cooled
Ver 10-"X6 x64 SSA
WIN 8.1 PRO 64 bit
Nvidia GTX780 3GB.
i7 920 2.67-- 12 GB Ram
40" led monitor
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01-21-2012, 05:28 PM #12
D. Scott,
I have been away for a couple of days and come back to this very interesting conversation.
Can you explain what you mean in the above by
ELEVATION OF THE TERRAIN PERIMETER - is there such a thing?
and TERRAIN ELEVATION - is there such a thing? Do you mean Pad Elevation?
In your example I would set the Pad Elevation to 20' (relative floor level) - is that what you want to know?
What are you trying to achieve?
Haven't we been through this before?
I think a lot of confusion arises because when you have a Terrain Perimeter with contours and you uncheck Auto Calculate Elevation.
Under these circumstances Pad Elevation is the elevation you are setting for Chief's zero floor level to - it has nothing to do with setting terrain building pads or elevation regions under the house - or nothing else to do with shaping or modifying the levels of the terrain.
It simply relates zero floor level to the terrain levels.Last edited by Glenn Woodward; 01-21-2012 at 05:55 PM.
Glenn
Chief X5
www.glennwoodward.com.au
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01-21-2012, 11:32 PM #13
Maybe to help, I made a video which visually demos how chief calculates the pad elevation. Glenn's plans are more detailed but sometimes a visual helps to understand.
The video is a little long winded, because I'm just slow, but I think it covers most bases. I did discover a update problem which was giving strange results. This may be some of Scott's problem.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30269729/Pad%20elevation.mp4
MP4 file
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30269729/Pad%20Elevations.wmv
WMV file
In any event, when Chief does update properly, the calculations appear consistent and correct. Problem is not in cals, problem is in correct updates.Last edited by gteacher; 01-22-2012 at 12:26 AM.
Gerry
NewCraft Home Services
Design/ Compliance Review
PE, X6 , Sketchup 8, TurboCad Pro 20
-----------------------------------
ASUS P9X79D, i7-3820, GTX680 w/4gb
-----------------------------
If the Government would just cut down more d*** trees, I'd have a much better view of the forest.
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01-22-2012, 01:36 AM #14
Lew,
Thanks for the lesson, and I do like your anology with the boat.
But you missed the meaning of my post - I was trying to get people to look at how things work from a different perspective in the hope it may make this whole thing easier to understand - apparently not!
Gerry,
In your video when you are looking at the section about at 12:37:08, you talk about Chief showing the cut and fill.
As far as I know, Chief doesn't do this.
Are you sure that what you are seeing isn't the terrain in elevation?
Can you post that plan so that I can have a look?Glenn
Chief X5
www.glennwoodward.com.au
Windows 7 - Home Premium
Intel i7-920
Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R
6 Gb DDR3 1600MHz
EVGA GTX285 1GbDDR3
1TB Sata HD
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01-22-2012, 05:20 AM #15
But you missed the meaning of my post - I was trying to get people to look at how things work from a different perspective in the hope it may make this whole thing easier to understand - apparently not!
Glenn:
for most chiefers the primary focus is on the house and while using auto-calc the terrain is their secondary focus
thus, they drop in a little elevation data (regions, lines) to get the 3D to look ok and
are not concerned with real world sea level values etc
for them your thought process would make the most sense
all values are RELATIVE to the default of 0" sea level
but in reality chief's primary focus is on the terrain and its relation to sea level and then the
seondary focus is on how the house elevation is calculated from those sea level values
since this is the way chief approaches it I think its good for chiefers to understand that
chief uses 0" sea level for the auto-calc
because once auto-calc is off it is a whole new ballgame....
at that point chief uses ABSOLUTE sea level values for the terrain elevation data (regions, lines)
and for the pad elevation and BOTH MUST be entered
so I think the switch in thought process fom RELATIVE to ABOSLUTE
can cause confusion for some chiefers
thus, I like to think in terms of ABSOLUTE at all times with the understanding that
while auto-calc is on chief is displaying the data as RELATIVE values
when auto-calc is off then chief works in ABSOLUTE and displays in ABSOLUTE
LewLast edited by lbuttery; 01-22-2012 at 05:23 AM.
Lew Buttery
Castle Golden Design - "We make dreams visible"
Lockport, NY
716-434-5051
www.castlegoldendesign.com
lbuttery at castlegoldendesign.com
CHIEF X5 (started with v9.5)