Plate on top of Masonry Wall?

[Joe Carrick]

How do I get a 2x plate on top of a masonry wall? I want a masonry wall with a plate on top to attach framing to. My masonry wall is full ceiling height and the framing is sitting right on top of the masonry wall.

[Joe Carrick]

I was able to do this by adding a 1-1/2" tall floor with no floor below and no ceiling above. I had to define a new wall type without and interior finish and make the framing material "transparent".

It's a work-around that kind of messes up the floor designations but otherwise is OK.

[dshall]

How do I get a 2x plate on top of a masonry wall? I want a masonry wall with a plate on top to attach framing to. My masonry wall is full ceiling height and the framing is sitting right on top of the masonry wall.

Yep, this has always bugged me. I simple put in a framing member sized approprialtley. I think we should have an option to add top plate to masonry walls.

[Glenn Woodward]

Joe,
Would a Pony Wall do the job?
After all, that's what it is.
Masonry wall below and a 1-1/2" high plate wall on top.

Probably a lot easier than the floor route.

[m3design]

Glenn

Just off the top plate topic for a masonry wall for a moment.

In the build framing dbx, under the 'wall' tab, no. of plates, what I would like to see is the option to nominate the number of plates for the external wall and internal wall.

As we mostly use trusses, and they don't bear on the internal walls, it would be nice to have this option for framing, 2 plates for the ext. wall and 1 plate for the internal walls.

Maybe for 'suggestions'.

[Glenn Woodward]

Len,

Yes, more flexibility would be nice.
Rather than have options for internal and external walls in the Build Framing dbx, it may be more flexible to have this setting in each wall definition.

You can have different numbers of plates at the moment by setting the option to 2 plates, and building the wall framing.
Group select all the walls that you want to keep 2 plates and mark them as Retain Wall Framing (on the Structure tab).
Reset the number of plates to 1 and build wall framing again - the walls marked Retain Wall Framing will not change, all the others will rebuild with 1 plate.

The only problem is that if you make any changes to the walls marked Retain Wall Framing, the framing will not update.

BUT, this can be overcome pretty simply by changing the Retain Wall Framing settings of each type of wall after you have made changes and rebuilding the wall framing - it sounds complicated, but it's easier to do than it sounds.

[m3design]

Glenn

Thanks. Hadn't thought of doing it your way. It would be ok on a reasonably small job, but if you had a large plan with multiple floors, I could see it becoming a bit of a nightmare.

May send in to suggestions for the option of the number of plates for external and internal walls or on a wall by wall basis.

[Joe Carrick]

Joe,
Would a Pony Wall do the job?
After all, that's what it is.
Masonry wall below and a 1-1/2" high plate wall on top.

Probably a lot easier than the floor route.

Hi Glenn,

I hadn't thought of that but I'll give it a try. You are definitely thinking "Outside the Box".

If the it had been anything taller than a few plate heights I would have naturally used a pony wall - go figure.

I would seem that Chief should have an option for plate(s) on top of concrete or masonry walls. This is such a common condition that it would just make sense.

Thanks, Joe

[dshall]

Hi Glenn,

I hadn't thought of that but I'll give it a try. You are definitely thinking "Outside the Box".

If the it had been anything taller than a few plate heights I would have naturally used a pony wall - go figure.

I would seem that Chief should have an option for plate(s) on top of concrete or masonry walls. This is such a common condition that it would just make sense.

Thanks, Joe

They give us the option, it is a pony wall. Remember will will want a finish covering the sill in elevation. If you don't want the finish define a wall without a finish. And with X-4 you can define the height of the top or bottom of a pony wall. A simple elegant solution without a downside that I can think of. GWWKAE.

[Joe Carrick]

They give us the option, it is a pony wall. Remember will will want a finish covering the sill in elevation. If you don't want the finish define a wall without a finish. And with X-4 you can define the height of the top or bottom of a pony wall. A simple elegant solution without a downside that I can think of. GWWKAE.

A solution - yes. But it's not what I would call elegant. Getting the Pony Wall and the Room Heights to be exactly right is a bit of a PITA. IMO anything that's a PITA isn't elegant :Sly:

[dshall]

A solution - yes. But it's not what I would call elegant. Getting the Pony Wall and the Room Heights to be exactly right is a bit of a PITA. IMO anything that's a PITA isn't elegant :Sly:

Subject: Using Pony Walls to get Sill Plates on top of masonry walls

This is what can be improved upon.... in the wall dbx we can define the ELEVATION OF LOWER WALL TOP and the HEIGHT OFF FLOOR. If you change one you changed the other, so I do not get that. This is where they missed the boat, we should be able to DEFINE ELEVATION AT TOP OF LOWER WALL or DEFINE ELEVATION OF BOTTOM OF UPPER WALL, with the option of LOCKING one or the other. This way if we raised the ceiling or lowered the floor we could still have Glenn's 1-1/2" tall sill plate.

[dshall]

in the wall dbx we can define the ELEVATION OF LOWER WALL TOP and the HEIGHT OFF FLOOR. If you change one you changed the other, so I do not get that.

Now I see the thinking, one is the HEIGHT of the wall and the other is the ABSOLUTE ELEVATION of top of lower wall, think about a pony wall on the second floor. Again I stand by the statement that we should be able to define the HEIGHT of the upper wall and that will overide the HEIGHT of lower wall as well as ABSOLUTE ELEVATION of top of lower wall.

[Joe Carrick]

Now I see the thinking, one is the HEIGHT of the wall and the other is the ABSOLUTE ELEVATION of top of lower wall, think about a pony wall on the second floor. Again I stand by the statement that we should be able to define the HEIGHT of the upper wall and that will overide the HEIGHT of lower wall as well as ABSOLUTE ELEVATION of top of lower wall.

AFLACK !!!!

I will need to study what you just said carefully. I'm not even sure you know what you mean

IAE, the height of the upper wall is defined by the height of the room. Do you really want to change that?
Or are you saying that setting the height of either wall should set the height of the other by making them add up to the height of the room?

[dshall]

AFLACK !!!!

I will need to study what you just said carefully. I'm not even sure you know what you mean

IAE, the height of the upper wall is defined by the height of the room. Do you really want to change that?
Or are you saying that setting the height of either wall should set the height of the other by making them add up to the height of the room?

Yes, I am saying setting the height of one should set the ht. of the other so they add up to the height of the room. The point is, if I know I want a 1-1/2" tall wall on top, no matter if I change the floor elevation or change the ceiling ht. I will always have the 1-1/2" tall top wall/sill plate for the CMU wall below.

[Joe Carrick]

OK Scott, That makes sense. Just add another control in the wall dbx and connect the 2 heights - adjust the height of either wall and the other adjusts automatically.

Playing with this gave me another idea. When you want a Fascia Band at a floor level (say a re-sawn 2x or something similar) You can just define a wall Type with the 2" fascia material and use it as a Pony Wall with a 0" height. It will result in a band that covers the floor framing. This might even work for something like a furred out stucco band but I would need to check the top & bottom surfaces to be sure.

Yep it works - I like this a lot more than PLine Moldings for exterior walls.