Plate on top of Masonry Wall?

[Joe Carrick]

How do I get a 2x plate on top of a masonry wall? I want a masonry wall with a plate on top to attach framing to. My masonry wall is full ceiling height and the framing is sitting right on top of the masonry wall.

[Joe Carrick]

I was able to do this by adding a 1-1/2" tall floor with no floor below and no ceiling above. I had to define a new wall type without and interior finish and make the framing material "transparent".

It's a work-around that kind of messes up the floor designations but otherwise is OK.

[dshall]

How do I get a 2x plate on top of a masonry wall? I want a masonry wall with a plate on top to attach framing to. My masonry wall is full ceiling height and the framing is sitting right on top of the masonry wall.

Yep, this has always bugged me. I simple put in a framing member sized approprialtley. I think we should have an option to add top plate to masonry walls.

[Glenn Woodward]

Joe,
Would a Pony Wall do the job?
After all, that's what it is.
Masonry wall below and a 1-1/2" high plate wall on top.

Probably a lot easier than the floor route.

[m3design]

Glenn

Just off the top plate topic for a masonry wall for a moment.

In the build framing dbx, under the 'wall' tab, no. of plates, what I would like to see is the option to nominate the number of plates for the external wall and internal wall.

As we mostly use trusses, and they don't bear on the internal walls, it would be nice to have this option for framing, 2 plates for the ext. wall and 1 plate for the internal walls.

Maybe for 'suggestions'.

[Glenn Woodward]

Len,

Yes, more flexibility would be nice.
Rather than have options for internal and external walls in the Build Framing dbx, it may be more flexible to have this setting in each wall definition.

You can have different numbers of plates at the moment by setting the option to 2 plates, and building the wall framing.
Group select all the walls that you want to keep 2 plates and mark them as Retain Wall Framing (on the Structure tab).
Reset the number of plates to 1 and build wall framing again - the walls marked Retain Wall Framing will not change, all the others will rebuild with 1 plate.

The only problem is that if you make any changes to the walls marked Retain Wall Framing, the framing will not update.

BUT, this can be overcome pretty simply by changing the Retain Wall Framing settings of each type of wall after you have made changes and rebuilding the wall framing - it sounds complicated, but it's easier to do than it sounds.

[m3design]

Glenn

Thanks. Hadn't thought of doing it your way. It would be ok on a reasonably small job, but if you had a large plan with multiple floors, I could see it becoming a bit of a nightmare.

May send in to suggestions for the option of the number of plates for external and internal walls or on a wall by wall basis.

[Joe Carrick]

Joe,
Would a Pony Wall do the job?
After all, that's what it is.
Masonry wall below and a 1-1/2" high plate wall on top.

Probably a lot easier than the floor route.

Hi Glenn,

I hadn't thought of that but I'll give it a try. You are definitely thinking "Outside the Box".

If the it had been anything taller than a few plate heights I would have naturally used a pony wall - go figure.

I would seem that Chief should have an option for plate(s) on top of concrete or masonry walls. This is such a common condition that it would just make sense.

Thanks, Joe

[dshall]

Hi Glenn,

I hadn't thought of that but I'll give it a try. You are definitely thinking "Outside the Box".

If the it had been anything taller than a few plate heights I would have naturally used a pony wall - go figure.

I would seem that Chief should have an option for plate(s) on top of concrete or masonry walls. This is such a common condition that it would just make sense.

Thanks, Joe

They give us the option, it is a pony wall. Remember will will want a finish covering the sill in elevation. If you don't want the finish define a wall without a finish. And with X-4 you can define the height of the top or bottom of a pony wall. A simple elegant solution without a downside that I can think of. GWWKAE.

[Joe Carrick]

They give us the option, it is a pony wall. Remember will will want a finish covering the sill in elevation. If you don't want the finish define a wall without a finish. And with X-4 you can define the height of the top or bottom of a pony wall. A simple elegant solution without a downside that I can think of. GWWKAE.

A solution - yes. But it's not what I would call elegant. Getting the Pony Wall and the Room Heights to be exactly right is a bit of a PITA. IMO anything that's a PITA isn't elegant :Sly:

[Joe Carrick]

OK Scott, That makes sense. Just add another control in the wall dbx and connect the 2 heights - adjust the height of either wall and the other adjusts automatically.

Playing with this gave me another idea. When you want a Fascia Band at a floor level (say a re-sawn 2x or something similar) You can just define a wall Type with the 2" fascia material and use it as a Pony Wall with a 0" height. It will result in a band that covers the floor framing. This might even work for something like a furred out stucco band but I would need to check the top & bottom surfaces to be sure.

Yep it works - I like this a lot more than PLine Moldings for exterior walls.

[dshall]

I too had thought about the band, but I don't think you can get what you suggested. I think at best you will get a trim board the thickness of the pony wall which could act as a stop for wood siding, but it will not cover the rim joist.... unless I am missing something.

I just did a quick video on this and discovered that Glenn's method does have a weakness in that you will not get a sill plate. A wall must be a minimum of 3" tall to get any plates. A wall 3" tall will result in a top plate and a sill plate. Any shorter and you will lose both plates.

[Joe Carrick]

Scott, you can change the number of plates. Use 0 top plates and 1 sill plate - but remember that you will need to set that wall to "retain wall framing" so it doesn't get rebuilt later.

I still would prefer to have the option for a sill plate(s) on top of masonry and concrete walls.

[dshall]

Scott, you can change the number of plates. Use 0 top plates and 1 sill plate - but remember that you will need to set that wall to "retain wall framing" so it doesn't get rebuilt later.

I still would prefer to have the option for a sill plate(s) on top of masonry and concrete walls.

Yes that does work, of course you have to go back in and reset the number of plates for the walls and rebuild wall framing again.

[Joe Carrick]

Yes that does work, of course you have to go back in and reset the number of plates for the walls and rebuild wall framing again.

Right - of course.

The bands do work since a Pony Wall results in everything outside the main layer extending down to cover the floor framing. If you specify a Pony Wall 6" above floor and the floor structure is 12", the Pony Wall will appear to be 18" tall in 3D Views. It starts at the bottom of the framing and goes up to 6" above the floor.