First desktop in 10 years.

[HumbleChief]

Larry,

Where should average computer users go to evaluate whats a good motherboard? Also, is that even an option if you buy from Dell or do they just use the ones they want versus giving you choices? I don't remember that as an option when I bought all my Dells.

I peruse sites like www.Newegg.com and read user feedback. Or check www.tomshardware.com for reviews. With a little research you'll find a few brands that always get good reviews. EVGA, Gigabyte, Asus, MSI, Intel to name a few. I'm partial to EVGA because the last build just went so smooth with great a manual and installation guide. Also my Gigabyte build went well after upgrading the MoBo.

Dell uses either their own proprietary motherboard that they manufacture, or one that's manufactured by one of the larger builders and they will not have that as an option if you want to upgrade or spec another one.

That's the prime difference in flexibility between using Dell or HP let's say and building your own system.

[HumbleChief]

Wow! Cliff and Victor, I checked out your two sites you recommended and they were great! You werent kidding when you said total customization. Geez, you can customize everything from casing to wiring. You both were also right about pricing, you can get triple the computer for half the price.

I use to think the brands like Dell meant reliability but as I became more knowledgable that all the parts inside are from the same computer companies that are in the custom ones. Its just that name brand companies charge more. So, I think if my dell breaks after the warranty is up I might as well try one of those. I really liked ecollegepc because it had the full warranty and pick up and drop off, that is something I would get.

Both those websites were clearly for someone who knows exactly what you want. For the rest of us who are clueless on whats the best motherboard etc, etc how do we go about selecting the right combinations of these custom parts and pieces?

Also of all the choices of combinations of parts, how do we know which ones run chief most optimally?

Im extremely intrigued by these website and Im almost certain that come my next computer purchase, I will just buy one from those sites, they seem really great.

Yes great sites and system prices and if you find someone with a good experience then that's the best recommendation I can think of. It really is surprising how much machine you can get for how little these days.

Notice neither builder offers you a choice of Mother Board. That's because they each offer a warranty and have found a board that they like and are comfortable enough with to offer that warranty.

I'd be curious as a buyer which board they use but I'd be more curious about why they like the MoBo brand they chose and if it's because they found it be reliable over the years that would be good enough for me.

[Pat1217]

Dell uses either their own proprietary motherboard that they manufacture, or one that's manufactured by one of the larger builders and they will not have that as an option if you want to upgrade or spec another one.

When I took my Dell XPS in for a checkup a couple of weeks ago the tech said that Dell used to use Intel motherboards but Dell has been cutting corners and are now making their own motherboards which is much lower quality. She said she's been getting more Dell computers in for repair.

[HumbleChief]

That's interesting Pat. I had a run where I would use ONLY Intel MoBos because they were just so dependable. Not as fast or overclockable etc. but rock solid which I'll choose any day over flash. Dell is a pretty good company tough I bet if they discover that their MoBos are a weak link they fix it - but who knows a dollar is a dollar.

[Pat1217]

That's interesting Pat. I had a run where I would use ONLY Intel MoBos because they were just so dependable. Not as fast or overclockable etc. but rock solid which I'll choose any day over flash. Dell is a pretty good company tough I bet if they discover that their MoBos are a weak link they fix it - but who knows a dollar is a dollar.

I think Dell was a good company but like a lot of companies, they are cutting corners. From what I've read, Dell is manufacturing less in the USA and is outsourcing to Asia and Mexico.

From a 2009 article:

Dell plans to continue outsourcing manufacturing of its products, one computer or server line at a time, according to a Dow Jones story on CNNMoney.com.

The company outsources the production of about 25 percent of its products. Chief Financial Officer Brian Gladden told investors Tuesday that percentage will grow over time. He said:

"We're not doing it mid-production cycle. It's coming up as new products come up."

In its efforts to cut costs by $2.5 billion in the next two years, it's also cutting its work force and thinning its product lines.



It's like anything these days, cut corners and cost. It's really disheartening.

[Cliff Bunyea]

Chad,

For those of us who know Chief & e-mailing only, I relied on the salesman and the cat that fixed my computer(my fault w/ the learning curve).

Of course, Chieftalk has good opinions on this matter. Victor mentioned AMD. I got that instead of Intel because of the big savings. There were other items (card, fan, etc.) that I also needed. The verdict is still out on my decisions (w/ suggestions from others).

[J.Sykora]

I use Dell too - my XPS has worked great for over 3 years now. I spoke with a few Dell reps and discussed what would work for my needs. As soon as they hear design and drafting, they start pushing for the Precision series - not sure why. I know of another person who went with the Precision and it ended up being quite bulky and a bit cumbersome for running Chief. I'm sure glad I went with XPS - which is more suited for gaming etc, but works really well with Chief. Next time around I might even go for the Alienware - just looked at one on the Dell website with similar specs as your list - $2,600 without monitors.

[lbuttery]

CA has stated many times that a good gaming PC will run chief fine

Chief is not based on a CAD PC platform

OpenGL is the ticket

Lew

[Chad Cardin]

Jim,

Yeah Alienware looks interesting but after buying the top of the line XPS back in 2007 thats the end of Dell for me. The reliability is slipping and after reading the new news from Pat about Dell, it just sums it up. Why should we have to pay $5,000 or even $3,000 for a good computer its just ridiculous.

At least on those websites that chiefers on here recommended you can get a great computer thats a powerhouse, 1/4 the price plus have a warranty! Im sold just on that!

[victor rasilla]

IMO a gaming geared PC is the best bet for chief. Central & graphics processing along with ram are the chief conerns for chief. Also, I'm convinced that in fact you get a better machine with custom builds. I've had several dells so I'm no stranger and probably the majority of computer purchasers(family computer type purchases) will need that shopping experience or moreover the drive to best buy for a new computer. We're picking on dell here but any "name brand" vendor is going to look at the overall build and scape a few nickels here and there. Mobo's and CPU's are one thing and that's at the forefront of all our minds but what about heatsinks, PSU's, Fans. I don't think you could find a computer at best buy with a Corsair Hydro Series water cooler heat sink in it but i could be wrong as i haven't been to best buy in a long time. Not to mention you don't have to spend a few hours trying to get rid of all the "trial offers" and nonsense bloat software that PC's come with. It's a no brainer now, compatibility, BIOS and product availability has really come a long way. Ten or fifteen years ago ? probably a different story, you had to have some programming knowledge and really now what you were doing to get your peripherals to talk to each other. ASUS seems to be a leader in Mobo's now.

I am fairly new to custom built computers but have really been into reading up on it and pretty excited about it so it's nice to share and hear your thoughts and views.

[Chad Cardin]

Victor,

You brought up another great point, about the preloaded crap of trial programs they add on! Once you get your 'already made' computer then you have to sit through the whole song and dance to remove all the nonsense off your computer.

The more we talk about this the more 100% sure I am about moving forward with a custom build. I really see a lot of value in this discussion and want to thank the person who started this, its really eye opening for a lot of us.

There are two things I would like to see on this discussion. One being a compiled list of all the 'custom builders' that we can come up with and for those of you who have had experience with them, please tell us, in your opinion, what were the pros and cons with your buying experience and your computer.

The second thing I would love to see is have a chief engineer chime in here and talk about the reliability of these computer parts and pieces and tell us what their opinons on what brands and parts theyve seen have the BEST results in chief. (boy was that a run on sentence!)

I think it would give all of us who arent specialists in computer parts and idea of what ex: AMD or NVIDIA has best results with chief. Often times chief may have a particular model etc that works best, yet when we call these custom builders they may swear by the exact opposite brand, not knowing what chief is all about.

So a really valuable discussion for everyone, thanks for starting this!

[WendyWelton]

Mike,

Add me to the opinion list - that you're a solid $2k too high. You can get a great machine for $1500. Bump that to $2500 and you'll have a fabulous machine and $2000 towards the next one. So if the various software packages available to you make some giant leap forward in two years, you can afford a new machine sooner if you so choose.

I have mine built locally, which has several benefits:

1 - He comes and installs it, makes sure it's working on my network with my printers etc.
2 - If it breaks, he's 5 miles away. Even if I take it to him, no shipping, no hassles.
3 - I can understand everything he says.
4 - I'm supporting my local economy, which means two guys names Dave and Steve are there for me when I need someone I trust to come to the office and make things work right.
5 - The cost of the machine is the cost of the machine - not the cost of shipping parts to one place, then shipping the completed machine somewhere else. So far it's always been cheaper than Dell's best price.
6 - I can get exactly what I need, no bloatware, no features I didn't need because they're "in the bundle". And no bloatware. And no bloatware. And no bloatware....

[WendyWelton]

One being a compiled list of all the 'custom builders' that we can come up with and for those of you who have had experience with them, please tell us, in your opinion, what were the pros and cons with your buying experience and your computer.

My guys are Tech-n-Go. Machine specs are pointless because my last one is over a year old now.

I also think folks should look around locally and see who they can find. You have to do some diligent reference checking to make sure you have the real Macoy, but it's worth it. Start with big-little businesses and ask who maintains their networks etc. The really big businesses have it in-house. It's the ones with under 12 employees that will pay for real help, but from a consultant, not a staff person.

There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING, like having a real person who can show up when all has gone to heck in a handbasket and make it better. When you buy your machines from them also, you get a better machine and your tech support guy then knows the machine well.

[WendyWelton]

Oh and one last thought - I don't research motherboards, video cards etc. I tell him how much money I can spend, tell him what Chief likes, and tell him to think good gaming. He spends his time and uses his expertise and experience to put together parts that will play nice together.

In my opinion, me trying to research motherboards and processors and video cards and tell him what to put in it is like somebody hiring me to design their house and then not trusting me to actually design their house. I'd be out lots of time and not get a better product.

[lbuttery]

The second thing I would love to see is have a chief engineer chime in here and talk about the reliability of these computer parts and pieces and tell us what their opinons on what brands and parts theyve seen have the BEST results in chief.


Chad:

CA has stated before that they don't want to do "recommends" for product selection

They will give generalities but not specifics

Lew