Craftsmen Series Question

[alexsl]

Dorothy’s house…style, material and colors in perfect harmony. Very balanced…

[JJohnson]

"Here is a Craftsman style house I designed about 8 years ago (pre-Chief)"


VERY well done! You and your builder should be proud.

Building the railing lower, because your not over 30" off the ground, and staying
true to Craftsman porportions is a great idea. But haven't you ever had an inspector
say " its not required but if you build it it must meet code"?. I know I have.

[RMorrison]

One of the advantages of sticking to a well-defined historical style is that there is an internal design consistency that is likely to achieve a better design than without these guidelines. While I personally don't think it's always necessary to be a slave to a particular style, when you start off on your own path, it's MUCH harder to produce good design, especially for someone that doesn't have much training. I am often struck that some contractors who would never allow sloppy construction details on their projects have no problem with allowing "sloppy" design details. If their customers said, "hey, can we eliminate some of that excessive nailing, and also not spend so much time getting the trim details to be so tight and aligned? After all, I'm the customer and I really don't want to pay for good craftsmanship," I wonder what their answer would be.

Colluding with a client, who doesn't know any better, to produce a mediocre structure that is inflicted on the neighbors -- probably for decades to come -- is nothing to be proud of. Hiding behind "that's what the client told me to do" is just abdicating responsibility for the rest of the community. Architects may sometimes seem elitist, but this is usually because they CARE about what they design; they have devoted a substantial part of their lives to Design and recognize that it reflects on them, and aren't willing to be just mindless facilitators for whatever lame idea the client has come up with.

As contractors, the next time you take pride in your construction, think about designers who take pride in THEIR own work.

[RMorrison]

Bungalow style is huge right now because it's a method of building a small house with lots to look at. People are downsizing but want a nice house. I'm currently working on a Bungalow for our "Bungalow Court" section of our development and it will cost them nearly $200k for 1,000 sf. Crazy, but it's what people are doing now. Our company has built 6 houses since the beginning of the year 4 of those are arts and crafts, bungalow style. It's very popular right now.

Here's a link to some examples we are doing.
http://www.vintagetownship.com/plan_category.php?plan=5

Aaron,

Thank you for sharing these. These are some VERY nice designs and great floor plans. Somebody there really knows what they are doing. These are great examples of a contemporary floor plan fitting well in a traditional exterior. [EDIT: In looking at these, the one design that doesn't work as well as the others for me is the "Custom" home (the one on 118th St.), which appears to be just a pastiche of style. Maybe, sorta Victorian (?) Definitely not at the same design level as the others, but illustrates very well what I was talking about in my previous post.]

@Dorothy. Tour de force.

[Joe Carrick]

Architects may sometimes seem elitist, but this is usually because they CARE about what they design; they have devoted a substantial part of their lives to Design and recognize that it reflects on them, and aren't willing to be just mindless facilitators

There's an old saying [No offense intended to Physicians] - "Doctors get to bury their mistakes but Architects get to see theirs Built and Displayed."


Perhaps that's why we are so serious about doing our jobs as well as we can - I personally don't think this is elitist. I think it's just a passion for doing good work - and as Richard said - we CARE just as much about what we do as a fine craftsman CARES about what he produces. This is not something to be ashamed of and Architects are not the only ones in the Building Trades that take pride in their performance. IMO most on these forums are equally proud of what they do, regardless of their training, experience or expertise.

[Joe Carrick]

BTW, I believe in giving my clients what they want. In most cases what they want is the best possible design that I can give them. Very seldom does a client want anything less.

I will almost always spend a lot more time getting the design worked out as perfectly as I can than I do preparing the CD's. That means making sure that not only are the spacial relationships and esthetics pleasing, but that the building can be built with as little waste of materials and labor and function efficiently for the owner.

Of course, if you get the design worked out down to the last detail it inevitably means that the CD's are easier to produce anyway.

[lbuttery]

Joe and Richard:

you make very good points about historical consistancy and pride in the design work.

I have moved into the realm of historical preservation and I would say that I disagree with the Sec. of Interiors "mandate" that addiitions to a historical residence should be "clearly distinquishable" (paraphrased)
I think they should be "matched" and the new can be "noted" to avoid confusing future preservationists


But...

on the comparison of a builder compromising quality
that involves safety rather than "look"

and what of the "visionary" like Sullivan and Wright who went against "convention" to invent new styles

maybe that Craftsman mixed with style X will become the new 21st century "Jetson" style
that everyone raves about in the 22nd century

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if the client "really" wants it, and they have been "informed" its "un-conventional"
then maybe they should get what they want and are paying for ???

I consider "most" modern architecture to be abhorrent but others love it

I try to "comply" with standard vernaculars of style but am also willing to give the clients what they want

Lew

[WendyWelton]

The real estate agents are calling an awful lot of what I do "craftsman", not because they really are Craftsman designs, but because the term is popular and sells homes. I call them "northern bungalows". Doesn't anybody remember how "shingle style" was all the rage a few years ago, even though most "shingle style" homes had precious few of the traits defining the actual historical Shingle Style.

The reason "us architects" get specific about these terms is the same reason as historians get specific about what the "civil war" in american history means. Every lingering backyard dispute is not "the civil war". Language does matter. It's how we communicate. If words lose their meaning, misunderstandings abound.

Take the word "green". Every tom, dick and salesman is selling a "green" product - and may consumers are mislead into thinking they are paying more for something better, when it fact the product has only one 1% green thing about it - making it 99% not green.

That said, no, I don't go around yelling at the real estate agents. I just roll my eyes in private, say "om" over and over and pick bigger dragons to slay on a given day.

[perryh]

I think everyone here Cares about their product, and the plans they produce as much as the Architects here. This is really about money and what budget you have to work with. I just don't ever get a client that has unlimited funds, so that dictates the level of detail and style to design to. I think the licensed people tend to a higher level of client with more resources ,and willing to spend more money on plans. I can design any style you want, but do you know what you really want, is the question. There is nothing new anymore, just freaky.

[Joe Carrick]

Just one more observation I'd like to make.

I work in several different geographical locations with widely ranging climates - some styles are not appropriate depending on where the project is located.

1. Southern California Coast / Beach - almost anything works, and in some cases you wouldn't need much in the way of heating or air conditioning.

2. Palm Springs area - heavy stone or tile roofs (generally 5/12 pitch or less) and if possible masonry walls -at the very least stucco - are preferable to survive in the summer heat. Temperatures here can reach 125 degrees in the summer and wood will dry out in a hurry. It seldom gets below 50 degrees in the winter.

3. Mountain Resorts - about 7000 feet have nice moderate summer weather but are sub freezing in the winter with snow at times as deep as 6 feet. It's not unusual to get over 2-3 feet in one storm. Here, with good cross ventilation for the summer there is no need for air conditioning (it would only be used for maybe 10 days a year) but a good heating system is a must with extra insulation or solar mass, steep roofs, covered porches, etc.

[RMorrison]

I think everyone here Cares about their product, and the plans they produce as much as the Architects here.

Most people here care about the quality of plans they produce. However, good quality plans DOES NOT equal good quality design. These are two very separate issues and are not really even closely related. For architects, good quality plans are just a means of communicating and facilitating the design. For many (if not most) here, the "plans" are the whole ballgame. Many design-build contractors will give the (purported) "design" away for free just to get a project. And usually, what they are giving away is worth about what they are charging.

[perryh]

Richard,
You talk like you are the only one that can put out a well designed set of plans, relax and think about what you say here. It really sounds bad for you. Most of your comments are putting down most of us. What makes you think your plans are better then most here, your license? Thats a joke. I'm sure there are people here that better you and me. Thats life, stand back and realize that there are non-licensed designers that are better then you, and learn to live with it. Your analyzing this way too far then it needs to be. Get off your horse, we are not in any competition here. Just worry about yourself, as others don't really care what you think , when it comes to quality design of plans. Not seeing yours I have no opinion. But if you want to send me some of yours and you want a critic, please do. I really don't like getting into the license-no license thing, thats a dead horse. There is no winner or loser there.

Now ,where's the golf talk.

[RMorrison]

Perry,
The fact that you seem unable to distinguish between good plans (which are just good instructions to a builder and which depend on technical training) and good designs (which requires some talent and design training) is exactly what I'm talking about. Some people don't see anything wrong with wearing a striped shirt with plaid pants. But they probably shouldn't promote themselves as fashion consultants. Of course, that is an "elitist" attitude.

[Allen Brown]

Wow, another "Train Wreck"?

Let's hope it doesn't go from a train wreck, to a "Shark Attack...at a Day Care".

Sorry, had to use that line. Heard it in a movie the other day, and thought it was funny.

By the way Dorothy, I LOVE that house!

[Allen Brown]

Cliff, here are some pics of some craftsman details a customer gave me.