Design vs. engineering question

[sutcac]

I never let an architect or designer on one of my jobsites. Total ban.

This has to be one of the silliest things I've ever read on this forum.

[moak]

I agree Bryce.
...probably no mirrors either

[IRISH]

Very well said Rich!

[perryh]

I never let good looking women on my job sites, too distracting

[gawdzira]

Hello Michael,

I take my plans through the design development and anything beyond the diagrammatic wall sections gets drawn by my engineer. I show details as they relate to dimensions but the connection details are stamped by the engineer.

When you live in California you like to spread the liability around.

I have worked in both fashions where the engineer does all of his drawings or that I will make the structural plans and have him mark them up and review my drawings after placing his red marks on the drawings. If the project is really small I will do the mark up version. If it is any larger than about 300 s.f. of space to be engineered I will let him do all the drawings. This is to simplify the exchange of drawings and to avoid errors.

The cost for engineering is always separate from my fee.

Alan

[Alaskan Son]

Very well said Rich!

Agreed! Thanks Rich.

[tmunson]

Gerry,

Thanks for you tactful response.

I'm not sure anyone is really understanding what I'm asking though. Its not a question of to engineer or not to engineer, not even a question of whether or not I'm qualified to do the calcs myself.

The question is...When performing professional design services (especially with Chief which is not an engineering program), where do you think a designers plan drawing responsibilities should end, and the engineers plan drawing responsibilities begin?

To me it is obvious. I have not read through all of the treads yet so I may be repeating someone else. Most areas now use the IRC (International Residential Code). As long as your design is within the prescriptive path of that code you can design it. In many cases I'm not required in my state (Washington) to have an engineer involved (this does vary throughout the state, some jurisdictions always require an engineer's stamp and calc.). When I do need an engineer I send him what I have and he not only checks my calcs but determines what needs to be done to those parts of the design that fall outside the prescriptive path of the IRC. I know right away when I'm working on a project for someone when an engineer will need to be involved. It is important that you know the IRC and any other code requirements adopted by the jurisdiction where the project is located.

Good luck with your new business. You have using a great product in CA.

Author of Learning Chief Architect Step By Step

[Alaskan Son]

Alan,

Thank you. You also have directly addressed the question, and I appreciate the response. Hows Carmel? We used to spend a fair amount of time in Carmel and Monterey when I was a teenager. Has it changed much over the years?
Was thinking of taking my family to the aquarium there one of these days.

Lived in Hayward for a little while too Richard. Not very much like Carmel.

[perryh]

The Courts are really the final decider's on who is liable for what. Just get a good Construction competent attorney if anything goes wrong.

[tmunson]

There is another thing to consider. I charge up to $50/hr. All of the engineers I have worked with charge over $100/hr. Why would I want my client to pay over $100/hr for work that I can do? The less the engineer has to do the more money I save my client. Am I taking money away from an engineer? So far they appreciate the work that I do, it saves them time and makes their job easier.

If you need an engineer, they will make sure that you have located and calculated the loads correctly and that the supporting members are adequet. They will do the braced wall schedules and any other aspect of the project that have to be customed engineered. So I leave the details for those parts of the plan for later, then add them per the instructions of the engineer. I do almost all of the drafting work.

[Alaskan Son]

Perry,

No offense, but I'm not so concerned with the liability, more concerned with doing whats right and fair.

[Alaskan Son]

There is another thing to consider. I charge up to $50/hr. All of the engineers I have worked with charge over $100/hr. Why would I want my client to pay over $100/hr for work that I can do? The less the engineer has to do the more money I save my client. Am I taking money away from an engineer? So far they appreciate the work that I do, it saves them time and makes their job easier.

Good observation. This is the main reason I asked the question in the first place.

[moak]

I don't think there's any problem doing things you're competent to do and comfortable doing. Engineers aren't required on every project I do. The real key is knowing when you're over your head need to engage an engineer.

[Joe Carrick]

I don't think there's any problem doing things you're competent to do and comfortable doing. Engineers aren't required on every project I do. The real key is knowing when you're over your head need to engage an engineer.

I'm in agreement with this - but I got my education at a University that provided both Architectural and Architectural Engineering degrees. I majored in Architecture but minored in Architectural Engineering. I'm fairly confident in doing most of the Structural Engineering for smaller projects but when I do a project that has a lot of special analysis I hire an Engineer.

If I am going to need an Engineer, I get them on board early so that there's no delay in getting their work. I provide them with layouts as soon as the prelims are done. Generally, they do all the necessary calculations and provide details that I incorporate into the CD's. As an Architect, I am qualified to Stamp the CD's (including Structural) and will do so. The calculations themselves will be stamped by the Engineer. If the project is very complex I'll have the Engineer review and stamp the Structural Drawings as well.

[perryh]

I draw everything, My engineer does nothing except mark up and prepare the Calcs. I give him a pretty complete plan so, he sees the way I want the structure to work. He will tell me if its screwed up or not and make adjustments. More drafting means you should Charge for it. But thats me and your situation might be different. Doing this for 35 years theres nothing new, so I feel confident with just about anything.