Design vs. engineering question

[RMorrison]

You probably aren't fully understanding what I'm saying because it seems you are a licensed architect and don't have to regularly outsource all engineering. Its something you've worked hard for I'm sure, but as a builder there are lines we have to understand. You are probably more likely to draw up everything you possibly can because it falls under your responsibility. I'm not licensed to be responsible for engineering so I don't want to take it any further than I have to. Especially because an engineer has to go over the plans anyway.

Michael,
Well, if you're stating that an engineer is going to be involved in any case, then that is different. You seemed to imply that engineers were only brought in when the local codes required it, and that you really didn't need or want specific engineering details, which struck me as being irresponsible for a builder in your region. If I've misunderstood, then I apologize.

I usually hire (or actually let the client hire directly) structural engineers when it gets too tedious. (Mostly second-story additions and hillsides.) In earthquake country around here, the calculations are often over 50 pages, sometimes WAY over 50 pages. In these cases, the structural engineer will do his own drawings. I just don't want the liability.

[Alaskan Son]

Richard,

Thank you. You were partly right, just not in understanding my question. Alaska is interesting. I do work in a [B]very[B] wildly ranging place in the country as far as engineering and climate is concerned. For the most part when I work in Anchorage, engineering is a must and is the standard practice. 1 hour away where I live in Wasilla, residential engineering is almost unheard of. Since I moved here in 2004 I have never worked off of, or even seen an engineered set of residential plans. The good part is, its in a lower seismic zone, and most homes are simple enough to frame using prescriptive methods.

[sutcac]

I find it interesting that there seems to be such concern about a client having to pay for professional structural engineering when that engineering, even here in earthquake-prone California, is such a small percentage of construction costs. In most cases, in my experience, this engineering (limited to residential work) runs something like 0.5% to, only in the most extreme circumstances maybe 2% of the total cost of construction. And that includes ALL of the structural drawings, details, and specifications done by the engineer. I just provide CAD backgrounds for floor plans, sections, and elevations.

If a client balks at this, the job isn't likely worth your time or liability whether you're a designer, builder, engineer, or architect.

I guess I'm a little baffled as to why there is such a seeming conundrum about where the designer leaves off and the engineer begins. The dividing line is pretty clear, at least as far as the lawyers are concerned. And as Richard has often pointed out, the leading source of liability claims against architects are not structural issues, but water damage.

[Alaskan Son]

Bryce,

Thank you for your response. You answered my question perfectly. It sound like you supply the layouts and elevations and you have an engineer do the rest. It seems there is no "industry standard". This is my first project where my contract included design work. In the future I'll just stipulate that I stop after all layouts and elevations are complete and the engineer can have it from there (unless of course he/she needs more info).

[eblcody]

Ok....Yikes!

1 hour away where I live in Wasilla, residential engineering is almost unheard of. Since I moved here in 2004 I have never worked off of, or even seen an engineered set of residential plans. The good part is, its in a lower seismic zone, and most homes are simple enough to frame using prescriptive methods.

And the Geo-tech engineering?

[MTH]

[QUOTE=sutcac;392297]
I guess I'm a little baffled as to why there is such a seeming conundrum about where the designer leaves off and the engineer begins. The dividing line is pretty clear, at least as far as the lawyers are concerned


Well, the most interesting thing for me is that I had to look up "conundrum" in the dictionary. Engineering isn't a problem but, I do appreciate the new word..

[eblcody]

For some architects this may be true, but as a builder I can assure you it is not usually true. I don't mean to offend, but there are some brilliant ideas that architects/engineers with no field experience come up with that just don't work.

uh oh... you just got yourself another 6+ pages of "conundrum" on this here post...

[Alaskan Son]

Eldon,

You're funny.

Sometime waaaaaayyy!!!back in this thread I received the answers I was looking for so I think I may be done now...


maybe...