Design vs. engineering question

[RMorrison]

Living in an earthquake-prone area, the contempt you seem to have for proper engineering -- only if the local code requires it -- is frankly surprising and disturbing. You seem to have a very short memory regarding the destruction. Try: http://goo.gl/3LwOH to refresh your memory.

[Alaskan Son]

Richard,

I don't have contempt for it. It doesn't really bother me too much (although as much framing as I've done over the years I think I have a pretty good idea of whats required without engineering stamps). I just want to charge properly for the engineering portion.

I have the freedom of letting the engineer take care of whatever I want, and pass that directly on to the client and cal it "engineering fees", but I would like to stick with "industry standard" and take care of whatever portion I should be taking care of myself, which is why I'm asking you you guys.

[Tommy Blair]

I have the freedom of letting the engineer take care of whatever I want, and pass that directly on to the client and cal it "engineering fees", but I would like to stick with "industry standard" and take care of whatever portion I should be taking care of myself

I would strongly recommend having an Engineer stamp all plans or at least review it. There is a liability issue here. A stamp would be good. You say "I have the freedom of letting the engineer take care of whatever I want". Well yes and no. An Engineer is going to engineer the structural, such as framing and foundation. If that Engineer is signing off or stamping the plan, you HAVE to go with what he calls for or you do always have the option of using a different Engineer. Some foundation companies will use their own Engineers for the foundation just like truss companies. I'm pretty good at guessing what our Engineer wants 90% of the time but bottom line is, He makes all final calls if he's stamping the plan.

[Alaskan Son]

Richard,

On a side note. Look at the link you sent me. Of all the non roadway structures you see, how many of them do you honestly believe would have been better off with some added hold downs or sheer walls? I've witnessed the aftermath of one fairly large earthquake here in recent years that struck the interior portion of Alaska (which is fairly rare). Almost no damage at all in an almost totally unregulated area.

Most of the damage is caused by water, falling/opening ground, failing roadway structures or a combination of the above. In the link you provided you can see plenty of buildings still basically in one piece but in a bad area.

[Alaskan Son]

Tommy,

I'm not sure you fully understand my question. I plan on having the plans engineered, and engineered properly and as fully as necessary.

My question is, how far do you as a designer take the plans before passing them to an engineer? When I said "I have the freedom of letting the engineer take care of whatever I want" I was only referring to how far I take the plans The potential problem I want to avoid is having my client pay extra for something I should have included in my design price.

[Tommy Blair]

While the plan is being designed, if you see something that might be in question to how it's going to be engineered, then you should bring it up to the client or even consult an engineer before you talk to the client. In alot of our remodels, we have the Engineer go out to the job for review once we know what the client wants and he'll give us options.

[RMorrison]

It doesn't really bother me too much (although as much framing as I've done over the years I think I have a pretty good idea of whats required without engineering stamps).

Yeah, sure you do... There's nothing like years of cutting and nailing wood to give someone an accurate idea of how a structure will perform in an earthquake.

[Alaskan Son]

Yeah, sure you do... There's nothing like years of cutting and nailing wood to give someone an accurate idea of how a structure will perform in an earthquake.

I just believe I've done enough of the same thing (off engineered plans) over and over again to know what is required. I'm sorry if I've offended you.

[rcole]

This is a question that you will probably have to answer for yourself in the long run.

Actually working with an engineer in producing the documentation is a new ballgame with each engineer you will work with. You will have to learn how to adapt to the methods the engineer prefers to use.

The fact that you are learning how to use what to you is new technology goes a long way to answering your own question.

Some are more than fine with a napkin, others just want to provide enough detail to get the permit approved. Then there are those who strive to produce the best product, or service they can provide.

My bet is that a year from now you will be providing more detail drawings than you had previously imagined, and thinking of ways to do even more.

[adamjedgar]

since all of you guys are working for a CLIENT why in gods name dont you ask the client what they want?

most of my clients dont want the hassle of chasing up additonal engineering drawings and paperwork...if they did, i would not have been approached to do the work in the first place!

you guys argue about some of the dummest things these days!

if you are a project homebuilder, you have your answer already.
if you are a small one man show, ask your concretor if he can build a foundation with "napkin foundation plans"

[Alaskan Son]

rcole,

Thank you! I'm taking it that in your experience it just varies. Being that I haven't been the one drawing the plans before I wasn't sure if most designers just hand over the layout and elevations, or draw up all the details too.

I have a particular client right now who I'm doing an addition for. I included the design work in my fixed price. The engineering I included as a variable allowance item. I didn't foresee all the areas where the two would overlap each other, and I'm in position now where I just don't want to take advantage of the situation. I also don't want to do more design and layout work then is typically done by a designer.

Thanks again for any input.

[lbuttery]

I'm assuming most of you guys are either designers, or builders (not architects or engineers or you would be using AutoDesk products).


This is not a good assumption....


There are many architects and engineers who use chief

Lew