Storefront Window Walls

[ebdesign]

Joe,
It's just 6 windows, inserted into a normal Stucco-6 wall.
They're not blocked together.
I can add all the doors & windows that I need.
All the settings for the 2 upper outside windows are at default values for type, sash & frame, casing, etc. The 2 middle windows & the 2 outside lower units- the top & side frames have non-default values.
that's it.
The 2D floor plan display isn't correct, but ........... when was it?!
Check out the SSA video tutorials in your digital locker. They do a great job explaining all the settings in the window spec dbx.

Jim

[sutcac]

The nice thing about Joe's method is that, besides being faster I think, it divides up a given space into equal portions automatically, which is what you most often want in a storefront, and you can choose the number of divisions by the newel spacing.

I've done the window route before and if you make a design change to the opening, then re-doing everything is, IMO, much more time consuming.

[Joe Carrick]

Hi Jim,

I agree with Bryce.

I tried your method and by the time I got just 3 windows to fit I was "fit to be tied"

It can be done your way but it really isn't easy.

[sutcac]

On the image on the right, isn't the center mullion narrower than the others?

Additional flexibility in six clicks.

[Joe Carrick]

On the image on the right, isn't the center mullion narrower than the others?

Good point Bryce. But if Jim like his method that's fine - it just doesn't work for me.

[ebdesign]

Faster? I think not; not even close!
It took longer to post this reply & image than it did to do this.
& I didn't copy/paste from the original units on the left for the new wider 5-across unit.
The window settings are there to get this w/out "work-arounds".
Jim
Edit: In my haste to impress you w/ my speed, I overlooked a display error. Corrected & new image posted.

[ebdesign]

It doesn't work for you Joe, because I suspect you aren't familiar enough w/ the frame & sash settings, etc yet. I got a feeling you will be shortly though.

How many clicks when you change the length of the wall to fill w/ windows? or, in the case of the curved wall, change the radius of the wall, etc? change the hgt?, change this, change that. These are all likely changes as the design progresses.
Break the wall in 2 places, use a railing, solid panels, adjust newel width & hgt, no room definition wall, polyline solid, create a symbol....................
For Pete's sake, Scott already has 20 minutes of videos explaining how to do this workaround, w/ more on the way probably.

There are other benefits for using "real" windows, not the least of which is framing & the materials list.
Chief has its limitations & some workarounds are necessary; this isn't one of them.
It's "beer30".
Jim

[Joe Carrick]

It doesn't work for you Joe, because I suspect you aren't familiar enough w/ the frame & sash settings, etc
Jim

I am quite familiar with those settings. The defaults you use are not the same as mine.

It's noteable that you fixed your 4 panel window by creating a 5 panel window - that's not actually fixing the 4 panel window - is it. Using your method gets more complicated with any multiple of 2 panels but I can also make that work with standard Chief Windows.

IAE, the real point of my method was to show CA just how easy it would be to take what they already have for railing walls and very quickly create a StoreFront Tool. In point of fact, the Tool would be much simpler than the railing wall tool. Most of the settings could be easily eliminated and a couple others could be added to make a really flexible tool.

But for now, you can use your method and I'll use mine. No hard feelings - just a different way of getting what we want to accomplish.

[dshall]

Joe, are you acknowledging that Jim's method works well with an odd number of windows. Does that mean it does work as well with an even number of windows? Are you possibly implying that Jim knew this and that is why he changed his picture from an even number of windows to an odd number? Jim, please say this is not so. Jim, maybe you can post a plan with an even number of windows so I can learn from your method.

[sutcac]

Good points Joe. What would be even better is the ability to have the store front fill a given space like a window (which is one of the advantages of Jim's method) so you're not required to go floor to ceiling, or even with a raised shoe, still have to go to the ceiling.

And I wouldn't poo-poo having it show correctly in plan, to me this is a major disadvantage of the window method.

[Joe Carrick]

Joe, are you acknowledging that Jim's method works well with an odd number of windows

It works - for me it doesn't work "well".

[ebdesign]

This is NOT my method.
There are no "tricks".
This is how Chief windows work.
Glad to see you guys playing around w/ 'em.

I do agree that Chief could give us a "specialized" storefront window tool. But, can we call it a "window" instead of a railing?
Scott, I'll take your remarks as just funnin'. I'm sure that's how they were meant.
Actually, I got 5 windows when I just wanted to drag but unknowingly dragged a copy & just left it. "Hey, I can do 5 windows really, really fast too!"
Yes, you do have to get "creative" w/an even number of panels. You have to add a center post. Whoa!
& if you resize, but keep an even number of panels, jeez, I wonder where that post goes now?
I add solid filled CAD boxes on the floor plan. PIA

As far as the window defaults, I change them as I need to. If I need to create a bunch of storefront windows, but don't want to change the current window defaults for the entire plan, I'll create a trash copy of the plan, change my defaults to what I need for the storefront windows, create the windows, get it all nice & purdy, then select all the windows & remove (D) in all the window settings that you don't want to change. Don't change the values, just remove the (D). While all your windows are still selected, copy/paste/hold into the "real" plan & all your storefront windows will stay nice & purdy.
I gotta go zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Jim

[Joe Carrick]

Good points Joe. What would be even better is the ability to have the store front fill a given space like a window (which is one of the advantages of Jim's method) so you're not required to go floor to ceiling, or even with a raised shoe, still have to go to the ceiling.

And I wouldn't poo-poo having it show correctly in plan, to me this is a major disadvantage of the window method.

Hi Bryce,

I agree with what you've said - but you can do this with a "Doorway" so you don't have to go to the ceiling - just set the height to whatever you want and suppress the casings.

OTOH, it doesn't work with a Window "Pass Thru" because you can't move the railing above the Floor - which is a shortcoming. A StoreFront Tool could overcome this along with some other things including allowing variable Mullion sizes, etc. Still, a set of StoreFront Panels with the desired mullion sizes does work.

[Glenn Woodward]

Joe,

I think your method is similar to a method I suggested late last year in post #11:
http://www.chieftalk.com/showthread....ht=shop+window

[Joe Carrick]

Hi Glenn,

You're right, it is similar. The difference is that I create a panel that includes the horizontal mullions and identified how it could be done so that the end mullions don't get lost when the storefront is placed in a wall.

After looking at your post, I remember seeing it but the idea came to me from trying to figure out the best way to do a Greenhouse. IAE, Great Minds think alike