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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    Kamiah, Idaho
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    Hip Roof Framing to Ledger on 90 Outside Corner



    Attached are two images of hips for a porch roof to be built with open rafters connected to a ledger fastened to the walls of an ICF house. Most all the projects I do are done with roof trusses and having little experience with complex (I think) manual framing connections, I am wondering just how the hip rafter and the first full length common rafters connecting with the hip rafter at the corner of the house should be fastened to the ledgers to make a solid, strong connection?

    It seems to me that trying to toe nail these three rafters at the corner would destroy (split) the ends of the ledgers such that the strength of the connections would be compromised. The second hip connection isn't quite as complex as the first but it seems that hereto, the nailing the hip and the first common rafter could also split the end of the the wall ledger. I am showing the rafter butted up to the wall as being connected to the house with a couple of anchor bolts (not sure if that's necessary ... I will probably remove them as this rafter can be screwed to the wall via the ICF webs ... the upper end would be solidly restrained by the end of the ledger).

    A careful stroll through the Simpson StrongTie catalog didn't reveal any appropriate hardware that would be applicable for the hip rafter connections to the ledger.

    Can anyone tell me how they think these connections can be achieved with ledger splitting (due to nailing) etc. as I have mentioned? I am brain locked on this one and could use some HELP (Allen ... any of you die hard framers)!!!


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Curt Johnson

    X5

    Puget Systems Custom Computer, Win 7 Pro 64-bit SP1, 3.3Ghz Intel Core i5 2500K Quad, 8 GB Kingston DDR3-1333 Ram, Intel X25-M 80 GB SSD App Drive, WD 500 GB Caviar Blue SATA 6 Gb/s Data Drive, EVGA GeForce GTX 550 Ti 1024MB VC, Antec 650W PS, Asus p8P67 Pro REV 3.0 Motherboard

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Comox Valley, BC, Canada
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    2,730
    Would it help to offset your o.c. spacing so that you don't have the two common rafters meeting where the hip rafter meets the two ledgers?
    Rod Kervin
    Kervin Home Design
    Courtenay BC
    p. 250-871-0316

    If a picture is worth a thousand words, and a video is worth a thousand pictures, then uploading the chief file is worth a thousand videos.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    Kamiah, Idaho
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    Maybe .... That is a pretty good idea for the first commons. What about the hip rafter then? Just a "V" cut in it to hug ea. side of the corner? Like I said ... I don't have a lot of experience with manual framing. I looked through some of my building books and didn't find much info about framing a hip around a 90 corner.

    Do you have any idea when a double hip rafter is required? My customer is considering a clay tile roof for the porch which means some added load over conventional roofing types. If I did that, then each hip rafter would have a 45 top cut (at whatever the angle needs to be) rather than a V notch (or whatever the correct way to do it is).

    Thanks for the idea on the commons ... maybe I'd better go back and check Simpson and see if they have something that would work for the top connection of the hip rafter. Adjusting the rafter LO might just make this doable even with the tops being toe nailed. Sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees!
    Curt Johnson

    X5

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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    RI
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    Hi Curt
    An option is to cut the hip top at a 45 and nail that first..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    .........

    Allen Colburn Jr.
    Pascoag RI 02859
    Residential Design Drafting/Framer

    Drafter for:
    http://www.artformhomeplans.com/

    Chief Architect X4






  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Elwood, Indiana
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    1,481
    You didn't find the Simpson HRC?

    It's a Hip/Ridge type connector.

    http://strongtie.com/products/connectors/HRC.asp
    Joey R. Martin,aibd,cgp,cga,caps
    Martin Design & Planning
    Elwood, Indiana
    Cell. 765-860-3567
    eMail. joeymdp@gmail.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    Kamiah, Idaho
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    Allen:

    That looks like a reasonable way for the 2nd image hip. My big concern was the one shown in the first image (the outside 90 corner). How would you do that one? Thanks.
    Curt Johnson

    X5

    Puget Systems Custom Computer, Win 7 Pro 64-bit SP1, 3.3Ghz Intel Core i5 2500K Quad, 8 GB Kingston DDR3-1333 Ram, Intel X25-M 80 GB SSD App Drive, WD 500 GB Caviar Blue SATA 6 Gb/s Data Drive, EVGA GeForce GTX 550 Ti 1024MB VC, Antec 650W PS, Asus p8P67 Pro REV 3.0 Motherboard

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    Kamiah, Idaho
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    Joey:

    Yes, I looked at that one. With what looks to me like a fixed 90 degree angle allowable for the two rafters that would be used with this connector, I don't think this is a good option. Maybe I am not looking at it right?

    If the HRC indeed isn't a good choice, I wonder if the LSU/LSSU hanger might be a better option?

    Just curious, how would you specify the attachement of the common rafters to the ledger? Toe nailing? Some sort of hanger?

    I did a small porch addition on my house (shed type roof) and used standard solid wood face mount joist hangers but I cut a small notch in the rafters so they would fit flush on the bottoms of the hangers.

    Thanks.
    Curt Johnson

    X5

    Puget Systems Custom Computer, Win 7 Pro 64-bit SP1, 3.3Ghz Intel Core i5 2500K Quad, 8 GB Kingston DDR3-1333 Ram, Intel X25-M 80 GB SSD App Drive, WD 500 GB Caviar Blue SATA 6 Gb/s Data Drive, EVGA GeForce GTX 550 Ti 1024MB VC, Antec 650W PS, Asus p8P67 Pro REV 3.0 Motherboard

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    RI
    Posts
    16,533
    It's not that bad there, you can nail through the side rafter.
    With the bottom nailed good the hip doesn't want to slide down because it is longer than the span.
    Plywood is all so helping to hold it all together..
    There are hangers to keep the inspectors happy.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    .........

    Allen Colburn Jr.
    Pascoag RI 02859
    Residential Design Drafting/Framer

    Drafter for:
    http://www.artformhomeplans.com/

    Chief Architect X4






  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    4,874
    For a long time now ,we here have been using bearing hips utilizing a ceiling beam with a king post to the hips, at that location ,with a "cc" at the top and an inverted "cc" at the bottom of the king post and the "hrc" at the hips. The hips are usually 4 x beams. this is really very structurally sound
    Perry
    P.H. DESIGNS L.L.C.
    Eastvale Calif.
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