Garage curbs, framing sills on top, drywall to curb, sheath + siding overhang

[Gene Davis]

For those of us doing frostwall garage foundations, earth fill, gravel, slab on grade atop, we want concrete curb around, with openings for doors where needed.

Our local building practice is to have a treated mudsill on the curb top, then the framed wall atop that. Also, drywall finish goes almost to curb top, and comes down over 2/3 of the mudsill. Outside, the builder almost always brings sheathing down past the curb top, maybe as much as four inches, and covers that with finish.

At Dan Baumann's ChiefExperts site, he shows excellent training vids that detail out how the curb is done with slabs, how the garage slab is done with a slab, and this, after the foundation is generated. The foundation walls around the garage perimeter require editing, with their tops being dragged down to the bottom of the slab-built curb.

His tutorial is for V10, but to this dummie, looks applicable right through X2, as I see no tools in X2 for doing this differently.

Here's a two-part question.

1. Is Dan's method sound, and good or at least OK practice, for doing this in X2?

2. As for the way the walls meet curbs, how are you squaring your 3D model, which is producing your elevations, with your framing, and need for 2D CAD details of conditions?

[joey3032]

I don't understand....why the workaround? All of those things can be done in the dbx.

[joey3032]

More from just using the dbx....

[Gene Davis]

Two views of the curb treatment given poured stemwalls for garages, below.

[rcole]

Gene

Have you tried a pony wall yet. I have not tried that exact application but I think it will work.

The upper wall would be framing and the lower portion would be just the two outer layers and a skinny main layer with air gap fill. Then line up the outer main layers. Set the pony wall default to it's minimun setting which is 1" and display the upper wall.

You will have to play with dragging the sections into place as required from a wall elevation. Use the tab key to get at the wall section that you need.

If you really want the interior rock to be elevated you will have to take that into consideration when you adjust walls in elevation. You will probably have to white out some wall lines in cross section. I always hate having to do that.

You might try other methods for the interior rock also. Remove it from the wall definition and replace it with a polyline solid or a double wall.

I would practice first and from what I have tried I would not do this untill the very last thing before going to CD's to avoid any issues with the pony walls. Doing this seems to tweek the foundation wall defaults. That is why I would recommend doing this last.

Offset the footing, but I think you knew that already.

[rcole]

I took a closer look at your pic and you might be better off with a symbol that will provide the sheathing and the two molding profiles instead of the pony wall.

When the contours get complicated I usually cut to the chase and use other programs to create the symbol.

I think you could stack the molding profiles in chief then display them and then convert to symbol.

[Max]

Gene,
If I read your post correctly and have interpreted the pictures OK then I think this might work for you. Take a look at the jpegs. It was hard to get the shot of the 3D just right so as to show the result but I think you will be able to tell. I may not have the stem wall exactly as you want it but I think it's close enough for this demo.

To get the siding and sheathing to come down it was really a mater of holding the framing up. To do this I experimented and ended up making the mud sill 6" thick. After generating the wall framing all I needed to do then was adjust the top of the stem wall up to the bottom of the plate. The results are below. I realize that you wanted two plates at the bottom of the wall after I had already built the example. I don't think that will be a big deal either. The mud sill is generated when building floor joists and can be adjusted for size and location. I think this can be inserted just below the actual wall framing before adjusting the stem wall up to the framing as I explained above.

Rod, I think this is what you and I were discussing the other day also.

[Max]

Gene and Rod,
I took a little more time this morning to add the mud sill shown in the detail you posted Gene. Note that the heights were exaggerated for clarity and to demonstrate any height can be used. See the jpegs below.

I generated the framing as I explained above, after which I then lowered the stem wall Height 1 1/2" in order to accommodate the mud sill. Chief generated the mud sill and I re sized it back down to 1 1/2. You will remember the mud sill was set to 6" in order to force the framing up. It all worked very well.

[Max]

Three more shots with the molding and flashing added. I thought I might as well try and duplicate your examples Gene.

[Gene Davis]

Max, I don't see what you have done. I am missing something. You are still in monoslab-with-footing mode, and this is about a stemwall foundation for a garage.

From what I see, you've got a stemwall that is 4" concrete, and an 8" w x 12" h footing under it, offset so as to have the footing outer align to the wall's main layer.

The only way I can see in Chief to get the slab to "bear" on the ledge we form into our 8" stemwalls (done with wood and foam block), is to do as you have done, with the 4" wall and 8" offset footing. Chief builds the floor slab to the inside face of the foundation wall. I would like to have this detail at the top of a 48" stemwall that has a 8" h x 16" w footing centered under it.

I try to replicate what you have done, and cannot get the 4" wall to show in section. How do you do that, and then get no line between wall bottom and footing top, so that it appears monolithic?

I did a tall mudsill and made its material concrete, and can get pretty much in a full camera view, what you show in your pic #2 in your post #8, but after that, I cannot get there in a 2D backcut section.

What version did you use? I only have 10.08.b and X2, and am doing these tryouts in X2.

[rcole]

Nice work Max

It is hard to tell, but it appears that with your approach of dragging the wall down you will get the wall lines in cross section. I take it that the fill patterns cover this so no big in this situation.

It looks like you are placing the moldng over the siding, it is also hard to see the flashing, but I don't doubt that this works.

The thing I like most about the pony wall approach is that it lets you knotch around things like deck ledgers and the like. It also shows clean in the cross sections that I have tried. Not thrilled with having to make the adjustments in elevation, but it works.

BTW you can also edit the wall framing to add another plate at the bottom and then change the layer and its fill and material definition.

I waffled again, I woke up this morning thinking that I want to try having the lower pony wall be the sheathing and the skinny main layer only and then add the molding & flashing.

[perryh]

Dan's video is only about stem wall foundations, not mono slabs, and everyone knows Chief doesn't mix the two automatically, although it would be nice if it did.

[Max]

Nice work Max

It is hard to tell, but it appears that with your approach of dragging the wall down you will get the wall lines in cross section. I take it that the fill patterns cover this so no big in this situation.

It looks like you are placing the moldng over the siding, it is also hard to see the flashing, but I don't doubt that this works.

The thing I like most about the pony wall approach is that it lets you knotch around things like deck ledgers and the like. It also shows clean in the cross sections that I have tried. Not thrilled with having to make the adjustments in elevation, but it works.

BTW you can also edit the wall framing to add another plate at the bottom and then change the layer and its fill and material definition.

I waffled again, I woke up this morning thinking that I want to try having the lower pony wall be the sheathing and the skinny main layer only and then add the molding & flashing.

Ron,
Thanks.
To make a better explanation, I dragged the foundation wall up, not down. There is a space left above the wall when making the mud sill so thick so the foundation must be raised to the bottom of the framing. Make sense?

Yes, there is another way to handle this but the molding was an after thought. I could have raised the siding up higher and then placed the molding under it with a 1/2" space behind to allow for the sheathing. In the 2D section view, after auto detailing, the sheathing box can be dragged down to fill the space behind the molding. This will never be seen in 3D anyway.

In 9.5 there is not a means to add a second sill plate. That is a newer feature so I just used the mud sill which is really the same thing.

[perryh]

The no line look is nothing more than the auto detailing boxes adjusted to fit the stem wall and/or footing. In my demo below you will see the footing is separate from the stem wall. I make them one box when I know it is a single pour. In 3D views the materials meld together so as to look like one entity

MAX,
There is a problem when using the auto-fill, that when using auto-fill, it will also fill all the exterior walls with insulation, even over the top of the plates and beams and each wall must be fixed or you cannot see the wall, so I never use it. This creates more trouble than its worth to fix all the walls.