Room Definition

[Sledge]

The whole purpose of using an invisible wall is that you want to affect the model in some way.

Dermot,

You are correct but we want it to affect what we draw in a way that works, not that requires a workaround due to sloppy QA. So from the perspective of invisible walls not impacting or having any effect in our work, and ignoring semantics, my original statement further up the thread stands.

The only real problem that I am seeing is that you have found a case where the automatic room molding is not what you would like it to be. Whenever you find a problem like this, you should always report this as a bug directly to tech support (tech support does not usually monitor this forum for problems). You should always include the plan that demonstrates the problem because it may be difficult to reproduce in a new plan.

So what you are saying is up until now, no one has ever reported this as a bug? It's been happening for several versions, tech support may not monitor these forums, but I believe some of you other guys do wander in and out of here. This one should be easy for you guys to reproduce in house.

Sounds like a cop out in this case.

[lbuttery]

Rod:

it has been reported many times before over the years

it has ceased to be a workaround and is officially a PITA

Lew

[Dermot Dempsey]

"So what you are saying is up until now, no one has ever reported this as a bug? It's been happening for several versions, tech support may not monitor these forums, but I believe some of you other guys do wander in and out of here. This one should be easy for you guys to reproduce in house."

Please don't put words in my mouth, especially made up ones.

I know people have reported bugs with this in the past and as far as I know those bugs have been fixed. I did some playing around with this before posting and I found that all of the common situations I tried all seemed to work just fine in X3. I have no idea what it does in X2 and prior but I don't really think that matters at this point. If there are still cases that don't work right in X3, then they need to be reported (with a plan that demonstrates the particular situation) or they probably won't get fixed.

The main reason for my post was to make sure that everyone knew these two things:

First, if you want a problem fixed, you need to report it to tech support. All the discussion that happens on this forum doesn't get problems fixed.

Second, if you ever have problems with the automatic room moldings, you can always convert it to a manual molding polyline to get full control.

[Sledge]

Please don't put words in my mouth, especially made up ones.

well please don't twist my words (post 17) about the effect of invisible walls when it suits your argument.

I know people have reported bugs with this in the past and as far as I know those bugs have been fixed. I did some playing around with this before posting and I found that all of the common situations I tried all seemed to work just fine in X3.

well you obviously don't try very hard. Here's a simple room with invisible walls and mouldings done in X3 Trial. Took less than 5 mins.

[Glenn Woodward]

Rod,

This is very easy to overcome by making the invisible walls 1 mm thick.

Is this a "workaround"? Who cares, just do it!!!

[Allen Brown]

I'm sorry Rod, but I agree with Glenn.

And, if you're still on version X1, which is what, 3 years and 2 versions old? You don't really have any grounds to complain about what the current version does or does not do.

[Sledge]

Glenn,

that's not the point. Workarounds are not an excuse for crappy QA. I mentioned earlier in the thread, that I too use workarounds. Does that make the actual fault not relevant to being fixed?

Allen so what, again does that excuse anything? So all you guys who still find fault in X3, don't bother complaining, even if the problem is still there in X5, X6 and onward.

[lbuttery]

I agree with Rod

it's time CA "slay this dragon"

a "workaround" is like fish - after 3 versions it begins to "stink"

Lew

[Allen Brown]

Rod, I complain about X3 all the time. But I do it by sending bug reports, suggestions, and volunteering to be a beta tester. You can choose to be a complainer, or you can choose to try to be part of the solution.

I choose to be part of the solution. How I do that is to provide examples of what does not work, and send it in with an attached plan, and my suggestions of how it should work, or how I want it to work.

Do they always fix my problems? Heck no. I have things I have been suggesting or requesting for several versions. Have they fixed some of my problems? Heck yes. I feel personally responsible for several fixes & additions to this software. Am I fooling myself into thinking I am the only one who made the request or suggestion, so I am the guy who steered them in that direction? Absolutely.

However, this is one company who actually listens to their customers wants and needs. I have seen it over and over. They don't ask a group of marketing professionals what should be in the next version, they ask their customers.

[Sledge]

Allen,

all your points are valid and credible, (if you don't mind me saying so ).

However, this should not negate issues raised by those of us on earlier versions, who for various reasons, aren't able to keep up to date with X#.

Whether we choose to raise it as an issue here, or formally via an email, should not be an excuse by others to try and dilute anything that we say as being irrelevant or have no bearing on outcomes because we aren't up to date.

I drive an old Ford and I decide to visit the showroom and check out the new model. I find some things are still of poor quality and haven't really improved over my old clunker. I raise this with the salesman. I'm met with a reply:

"Well you still drive an old heap, so you really have no right to complain about the new model"

Perhaps that may be a valid response, but I am, and possibly will be, a buyer in the future. I could also decide to write to higher management and see how far that gets me. (in real life, I have in fact done so)

so you are correct... listen to your customers, but always keep an ear to the ground as to where the complaints are coming from, it's not always in black and white and it may come from an old customer looking at entering the market again.

[Allen Brown]

Just to be clear, I am in no way criticising the fact that you are not upgraded to the latest version. I have several software programs that I have not upgraded to the latest & greatest, because I haven't needed to.

This just happens to be one that I personally feel that I need to stay current with.

[Dermot Dempsey]

Rod,

It looks like you have found a case where the program does not handle a particular situation in an ideal way. If this is something that you really feel that strongly about then you should report it to tech support.

Here is the bottom line. The automatic room moldings may not work exactly how you want them to in every possible case. Neither will the automatic roof tools. Neither will the automatic framing tools. And neither will most of the many other automatic tools that are built into the program.

This is why we also have manual tools. We try to handle the most common situations well and give you manual tools to handle all of the other possible situations.

We put every version of the program through a very extensive testing program but we will still never be able to test every possible configuration that our customers can come up with. This is why we ask people to report any problems they might find so that they can then get put on our todo list to get fixed.

[Sledge]

Dermot,

Thanks again for your reply. From my perspective using an older version, I often ask if current users are still experiencing the same problems. As you can see, I do fire up X3 Trial to see what's happening in the new versions - and for me it's a gauge when the time comes whether the upgrade is going to cause the same headaches anyway.

As the trial doesn't get updated when you patch the full version (at least this was the case last time I checked), I am not always certain whether my problem (or rather the potential problem for current users) has gone away. I therefore don't/can't send a copy of any plan from X3 trial to whinge to you guys.

However, if you are happy to just take an email with the best detail I can provide, I'm happy to provide any constructive whining to your tech support guys.

[lbuttery]

As the trial doesn't get updated when you patch the full version

Rod:

it's my understanding that the trial does get updated but it takes a few weeks as CA wants to be sure the update doesn't have issues

also, since the trial can't save plans you can't use it to test an issue and then send it to tech support

the best you can do is confirm the issue is still there in X? and post on the forum and ask if some else can reproduce the issue and send it to tech support

I understood that even tho you have X1 you weren't complaining about X1 having the issue but that it was still there in X3

somehow CA needs to review their database of 4000+ issues and concentrate on those that have been around for more than a few releases

someone at CA should be keeping track of each workaround as it is posted here on the forum and then trying to find a way to solve the issue so that the workaround is not needed

if the workaround can "fix" the issue then codify that workaround !!!

Lew

[Sledge]

Thanks Lew,

That's a good summary of my thoughts and the limitations of my X3 trial when trying to ascertain if things work or not.