Hardware Guide for X3

[Bradley Boltz]

Barton, how does your Sager Laptop compare to your land-based machine?

Also, your Sager laptop probably has better specs and better quality hardware than the more retail oriented i7's like the Toshiba, Asus, HP's etc? It would be interesting to see some performance comparisons to those machines versus yours. Just a semi-uneducated inquirey.

Finally, in regards to speed, from my perspective limping by on an Athlon XP 1700 running at 1.47mgz single core with 2gig of ram and an older AGP NVidia 250 meg vid card and a 40 gig HD, I would assume that even a Toshiba i7 Laptop running 1.66 with a 1gig nvidia, 7200rpm hard drive and 4 gigs of DDR3 would feel fast? Boy I hope so, but I guess maybe I'll look for a land-based i7 unit running over 3ghz since I can't quite swing $2500 to $3500 plus for the rocking laptops that Sager or Lenova have.

Thanks for the insight.-Brad, Currently Working at the Speed of Paper

[Barton Brown]

Barton, how does your Sager Laptop compare to your land-based machine?

Hi Brad,
As you might expect, the Sager is slower than the desktop . Of course, in comparing CPU's with roughly the same architecture but clocked at 1.7 GHz and 3.5 GHz, one would hope the 3.5 GHz machine would be faster. Is it twice as fast? Probably, for CPU focused activities. I haven't tried comparing raytrace times yet. That said, the Sager runs X3 just fine for my needs.

Also, your Sager laptop probably has better specs and better quality hardware than the more retail oriented i7's like the Toshiba, Asus, HP's etc? It would be interesting to see some performance comparisons to those machines versus yours. Just a semi-uneducated inquirey.

I haven't seen any a:b type comparisons but will tell you that there were two reason's I went with Sager. The first was strictly impatience on my part. I wanted an i7-based laptop in the Fall of 2009 and I had a time window within which I needed to purchase it. Sager had them on the shelf and HP, for example, had yet to announce. I bought the Sager and the day it arrived HP announced. HP was a little less expensive but when comparing components, I realized that I could not get the same quality nVidia card in the HP that I could in the Sager, and that probably made the price difference.

I really like the Sager except for one thing, the fan noise is LOUD. I have no trouble telling when I have the Sager turned on and REALLY no trouble when doing a ray trace with CPU loadt at 100%. Actually, to be accurate, the FANS (plural) are loud, as there are three of them in this thing to keep it cool. I recently upgraded the memory from 4 GB to 8 GB so I had to remove the case bottom. I was amazed at the amount of copper plumbing running from the CPU and the GPU and around the fans.

Finally, in regards to speed, from my perspective limping by on an Athlon XP 1700 running at 1.47mgz single core with 2gig of ram and an older AGP NVidia 250 meg vid card and a 40 gig HD, I would assume that even a Toshiba i7 Laptop running 1.66 with a 1gig nvidia, 7200rpm hard drive and 4 gigs of DDR3 would feel fast? Boy I hope so, but I guess maybe I'll look for a land-based i7 unit running over 3ghz since I can't quite swing $2500 to $3500 plus for the rocking laptops that Sager or Lenova have.

I think you would be pleased with an i7 laptop (from any mfgr) compared to a single core machine.

I built my desktop machine in April of 2009 for a part cost of about $1,700 and I'm sure you could do better than that now. One thing I would suggest on any machine you decide to go with, get Win 7 x64 and be sure that you either get, or can expand the RAM to more than 4 GB. You will discover that it is pretty easy to push the system past the 4 GB limit.

I didn't really answer your questions but hope this helped a little.

[Bradley Boltz]

Actually Barton, you answered my questions and more, thanks.
The Sager's been on my wishlist for a couple years now and I don't know if I can swing one yet.
May get my local computer dude to put together a land machine for about a grand until I can afford going mobile. I think the Sager's are available with higher speed cpu's and was wondering about their extream version processor that adds about $800 to the price.

I certainly appreciate your taking the time to give me your thoughts and found them to be quite helpful. Thanks and I'll throw out a post when I get my new machine.
Regards,

Brad

[Larry Kumpost]

I really like the Sager except for one thing, the fan noise is LOUD. I have no trouble telling when I have the Sager turned on and REALLY no trouble when doing a ray trace with CPU loadt at 100%. Actually, to be accurate, the FANS (plural) are loud, as there are three of them in this thing to keep it cool. I recently upgraded the memory from 4 GB to 8 GB so I had to remove the case bottom. I was amazed at the amount of copper plumbing running from the CPU and the GPU and around the fans.

Thanks for the information Barton:

I can understand the fan noise issue but I think that reinforces a concern I have about the Asus i7 models. While I have had good service from my old Asus G1, the primary reason I have avoided buying the newer, i7 version of the Asus 15.6" G Series models is based on all of the user reviews indicating that they run really hot. The 17+" models don't seem to have the same problems with 2 fans venting out the back of the unit but I'm not sure I want to carry one of those around when I travel on airlines.

What I mean is the fan noise may be an issue but, the way I see it, it is better to have a system that is designed to handle the heat properly. As a side note I saw a 15.6" Asus (originally ($1,500) on sale at Tiger Direct for $1,000 just yesterday. Tempting but why buy something that is not properly designed?

[Barton Brown]

Larry, just to make matters more confusing, take a look at the Intel processor chart at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i7 and look at the TDP column (max power dissipation). i7's range all the way from 130 watt down to 18 watt. The i7-820QM in my laptop is rated at 45 watt. The other Sager I looked at was "desktop replacement" notebook with an i7-920 which is rated at 135 watts! I'll bet that notebook runs hot or has enough fans that it pulls itself down to the tabletop when they are running.

[Larry Kumpost]

Larry, just to make matters more confusing, take a look at the Intel processor chart at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i7 and look at the TDP column (max power dissipation). i7's range all the way from 130 watt down to 18 watt. The i7-820QM in my laptop is rated at 45 watt. The other Sager I looked at was "desktop replacement" notebook with an i7-920 which is rated at 135 watts! I'll bet that notebook runs hot or has enough fans that it pulls itself down to the tabletop when they are running.

A fan that did that would give a whole new meaning to "Desktop Replacement"

I didn't say this outright in my previous post but, to some extent that is what I am getting at. Not all i7 systems are created equal. I noticed in your initial reply that your Sager has a i7-820QM whereas the lower cost Asus (and other notebook systems) have the i7-720QM. Trying to find the best system is not just looking at CPU, RAM (how many GB and what type), front side buss, etc. but now you need to understand how the system is set up.

Does you Sager switch to turbo-boost when only one core is in use or when you zoom does another core kick in? What I am getting at is I don't doubt what Al said but it could be based on what level i7 CPU you get and how the manufacturer has set it up. Makes buying a new notebook a bit more complicated.

[Barton Brown]

Does you Sager switch to turbo-boost when only one core is in use or when you zoom does another core kick in? What I am getting at is I don't doubt what Al said but it could be based on what level i7 CPU you get and how the manufacturer has set it up. Makes buying a new notebook a bit more complicated.

Larry, the Sager does kick into turbo-boost when I zoom or do anything that asks for more compute power. If the CA sw engineers happened to have multi-threaded a part of the task, then additional cores kick in and the turbo-boost gets scaled back. When doing something like raytracing (when the image is actually being generated) the laptop goes to 100% CPU utilization and all cores are at the 1.8 GHz speed (and of course, the fans are ROARING )

[overture]

Hi everyone,

I'm an interior architecture student taking an X3 class this fall. I need to upgrade from my little white macbook for this, CS5, and future CAD / 3D rendering programs that my classes will throw at me. I'm a computer neophyte, but I've been trying to get a handle on the required specs. This thread has been such a help.

I'm looking for a system that will perform well, and continue to perform well for the next three years or so. I don't need the fanciest system or the best performance possible. I just want something with decent speed and graphics without paying for performance I'm not going to notice.

I would love to get your input on the following setup:

Sager NP7110
17.3" FULL HD (1920X1080) LED LCD
Intel® Core™ i5-540M (2.53~3.06GHz, 35W) w/3MBCache - 2 Cores, 4 Threads
6GB (2 SODIMMS) DDR3/1066 Dual Channel Memory
nVIDIA GeForce® GT 330M w/1GB + Intel GMA 4500
500GB SATA II 3GB/s 7,200RPM Hard Drive (16MB Cache Buffer)
Combo Dual Layer DVD +/-R/RW CD-R/RW Drive w/Softwares
Built-in 802.11a/g/n WiFi Card
Windows 7 Premium - (64-Bit installed - 64 and 32-bit CD included)

Please let me know what you think!

Thanks,

LC

[Barton Brown]

LC,
Looks like a good choice to me. If you can swing the extra $75, I might go for the i5-620 option because you get a little more CPU speed and 25% more L3 cache. Since you expect to be doing renderings the more CPU horsepower the better (within reason ).

The 6 GB of RAM looks like a good choice also. At some point, depending upon the applications you need to run for class, you may want to bump the machine to 8 GB but you can easily add the needed 4 GB module and Sager's current price to upgrade is about equal to buying the RAM on the street. A year from now it should be cheaper... What I'm trying to say is that until you know you need more RAM, no sense getting it now, BUT if you do find that you need more after you purchase the computer, you haven't suffered a cost hit.

[lbuttery]

LC

looks like a nice PC

using that as a reference PC check out Sony, and HP and Dell and a few other name brands just to compare

then you will know if you are making a good choice

I have never owned a Sager but here good things about them

Lew

[overture]

Thanks Barton and Lew. I haven't even seen the i5-620, I'll have to check that out. I'm looking forward to having many more (non-hardware) related questions for the forum. =)

[Ben Palmer]

Ray,

Not exactly sure what your intentions are with NView, but I missed it as well, and I did a search a while back, and found this handy free software that took care of some features I wanted: http://www.displayfusion.com/

This may not be what your after at all, but thought I would throw it out there.

[RAYG]

Now that X3 is looming large on the horizon, I thought it would be good to post some guidelines for hardware for X3 so that you can make an informed decision if you plan on buying new hardware.

For the most part our system requirements will remain the same as for X2 with the caveat that X3 is designed for multi-core systems.

This means that for a few operations you may see a slight slowdown on single core and single core hyperthreaded hardware. While we will work to keep performance on these systems as fast as possible, our focus now and for the foreseeable future will be on multi-core machines.

To that end the following are my recommendations for X3.

1) More cores is better.

We have some performance optimizations coming in X3 that will utilize as many cores as you can get for some operations. Much of our development work has been done using i7s and other Quad Core hardware. We are pretty sure that some of the new 6 core machines will be an even better choice, but haven't done benchmarking on them yet.

We started focusing on the i7 hardware about a year ago because we figured that by the time X3 shipped it would slip off the bleeding edge and be more affordable. i7 hardware has now moved into the main stream price range. We are even seeing i7 laptops available.

This should make the older Core 2 Duos drop in price quite a bit. For someone that is looking for really cheap hardware that X3 will do good on a Core 2 Duo would be my recommended cheap machine. However, look around older quad cores are available in desktops in the $500 price range.

2) Memory.

X3 will be easier on memory for 3D operations than X2. In some cases this is very significant. Still, if you are getting new hardware more memory is better.

For a new machine I wouldn't get anything with less than 4 GB.

While memory speed still is important, the speed of memory in the multi-core machines is generally improving over time so it is becoming less of factor when looking at hardware.

3) A 64 bit OS is a must have.

Windows 7 64-bit is the best OS to run X3 on. X3 will ship as a 32 bit application.

The main reason to go 64 bit is that your extra memory will be used by the OS and other applications making your system faster when dealing with large models in Chief.

I am using X3 13.2.0.49 now. I have a Radeon X1650 video card that has worked adequately thru X2!
NOW It is slow on orthographic full, PLUS there is a small square of the previous image overlayed abit to the right of center an about 40% up from the bottom.

[Doug Park]

Sound's like a video driver problem. We are taking advantage of OpenGL 2.0 features now which for the most part is faster and provides better results on newer cards.

We have found that even though some of the older ATI cards claim 2.0 support some of them have serious bugs in their drivers.

Try turning off "Use Enhanced Lighting" option in your render preferences and see if that helps.

[Abyssal Designs]

Hector,
Hello Folks,
I'm planning to get a new mac book pro i7, 8GB, 2.66 mhz, 7200 rpm does anybody know how chief is going to work on partition boot camp on that machine?. also if I use the accutrans to render it in KT I'll be able to use KT mac version?.
Thanks