More staircase headaches!

[Gene Davis]

How is it that these little houses I choose as training exercises create so many little dilemmas for me in Chief?

Take a look at the main floor plan below, clipped from the plans-seller's website. What is happening here is that a living room is sunk 12" down from the adjacent floor, accessed via two 6" steps down, one way around each side of the woodstove. On the staircase side of the woodstove, a stepdown is right past the landing step going up, the next is beyond the door to the staircase going down. Thus, the stairs UP begin at elevation zero, and the stairs DOWN begin down from elevation MINUS 6.

I framed it in Sketchup the same way the house gets framed, by dropping one big platform at LR level going to and just beyond the chimney hole, and doing "lay over" platforms to make the raised up "steps". See my SU screencap, in which I highlighted in red, the way the box-ups get done.

The stairs up from main to second begin with that framing transition, zero to minus 12, happening halfway across the lower section tread width. Those stair built OK in Chief.

The stairs from basement to main were "tricked" in the build in Chief, by setting the lowered platform at minus 6, not minus 12. I thought I could build the stairs and then lock them and move my platform back down to minus 12.

Chief did not react the way I wanted. Even with the stairs locked, the stairs from basement to main lowered the top reach when I lowered the deck.

What is the workaround here?

I was planning to do p'line solids to do the portion of floor that gets the block-up, but I cannot get beyond the stair building.

[lbuttery]

How is it that these little houses I choose as training exercises create so many little dilemmas for me in Chief?


because you are climbing the learning curve


Lew

[billemery]

Here I've used invisible walls to create "rooms" as the landing.

This does create a problem with the floor framing which can be overcome in several ways. One is to simply modify the framing after it builds. The other is to change the stairs into a symbol, and then change the floor back so it frames logically.

[Gene Davis]

Thanks, Bill. Can I presume that the invisible rooms were done using invisible walls? That, I can do. I am using invisible walls to do the big 12" lowered platform.

I can drop the 12" where I need to, because enough of the zero level lies across the first tread of the UP stairs to make them stay as-is. I can do a little room box with I-walls so that the stairs down begin at -6. I can modify the framing that generates. All do-able by me.

But changing the stairs to a symbol? Wow! That is beyond me. My symbol wizard wants to import a 3D file made elsewhere, and I don't see anything in the dbx when I open the stairs that leads to turning the stairs into a symbol.

Hint?

[lbuttery]

Gene:

I've never done this, but from postings here, I think the basic steps are to use edit area tool to copy the stairs to a new plan, then export as a .DWG file and then import via the symbol wizard.


For X1 it may not be necessary to do the export, at least that's what I remember hearing.


Lew

[billemery]

Copy your stairs into a new plan. In this case you'll have set your floor heights in the new plan to maintain the riser height that you want. You'll also need to create a blank second floor so the stair will land correctly. This is necessary because the stair will adjust to whatever the platform height is in the new plan. That said, your symbol will stretch so setting the floor heights is not essential.

Make sure that the stair is the only thing in the plan. Take a 3D view of the stairs (render or vector) and go to file>export>3d model. I prefer the 3DS option as it comes back in with textures, making the process a little easier.

Now go to tools>symbol>create symbol wizzard. Follow the steps, and save it to your library. Bring it back in as an interior fixture or a millwork item. There are a lot of options, but just leave everything at the default setting.

You can now bring it in and it will not be affected by floor heights. It can however be stretched in X, y, and Z axis. This property makes it quite adaptable as noted above. This stretching property makes it possible to create stairways with a greater riser height than chief would normally allow which you may find useful for basement or attic stairs.

[dcdavis]

Cant you just go to symbol/tools/convert to symbol instead of exporting and bringing back in ???? what am I missing? Must be something or Bill wouldn't of added that step.

[louis]

Gene,

What Bill failed to mention to you is that in 10 you will need to use edit area to be able to copy and paste the stairs into a new plan. Also you will not have the export a 3Ds file in version 10.

[Gene Davis]

Thanks, Bill.

If invisible rooms are done using invisible walls, it was that means I used to define the floor drops I did to get the stairs to build.

Making the stairs a symbol is not something I have a clue about. Nothing in my training videos, nor my ref manual, gives me a start.

So, I'll go with the invisible room method, and doodle the framing I get from it.

[billemery]

Hi Louis,
Good points; I stand corrected.

[billemery]

Gene,

I think it a toss up; as each method has it's advantages.

I used invisible walls to create the landing "rooms" and set their floor heights and platform thicknesses.

I also used a molding polyline to create the nosing on the landings.

Since you've chosen to leave the landing rooms as they are, you'll need to edit the framing, but that is only a minor problem if you know how to use the trim, extend, and make fence tools.

I would suggest that you do a "save as" and try the symbol stairs as a comparison, as it too has its advantages. Don't be intimidated by the symbol creation process as it is not difficult for this type of symbol; and it's another tool that will serve you as you progress.

Many here are willing to compromise and just accept what Chief will do easily; I'm impressed that you won't compromise on your details. I could really see that in the skylight issue that you brought to the forum last week.

[Gene Davis]

Thank you all! That was very helpful, and I have created the staircase from basement to main as a symbol.

Wow! The possibilities seem endless, now. Anything I can do with Chief CAD can be processed this way to make a symbol.

[billemery]

It occurs to me that there is easier way to solve this problem.

Create an open below room large enough to fit the landings and the stairs. Create the landings at the proper height; the lower landing is built on the first floor so the lower stair will connect with it. The upper stair is built on the second floor so the upper stair will connect with it. Build your stairs to the landings. Once they are connected simply pull the main floor in under the landings. The stairs should remain connected to the landing, and not revert to the floor.

This is perhaps the best method because you don't have to mess with the stairs and the framing will build correctly

[Gene Davis]

Bill, thanks. That may be the best of all, and I'll work at it when I have time later.

Just to recap. I've a stairs running from 0 up to 1, landing at a height where there is not a floor at 1, due to framing considerations. I can build it to a landing that I fix at the "near 1" elevation.

Almost same with next. A stair rises from "near 1" up to 2. I make a landing at the fixed height near 1, then build the stairs from it up to 2.

If fixing those landing heights works, this should make the stairs bulletproof, when I doodle the floor 1 thing with its drop and overbuilt areas to step it down.