Cabinet Manufacturers

[GaryT]

To elaborate a little.

Though I had an architectural practice for many years and was doing 3D modeling on projects as early as '86, my primary business is designing, selling and installing cabinetry. Because of my background and that of my partner, who is an interior designer, we do a lot of design work beyond the kitchen and bath. We are also doing some design build.

I have tried 20/20, Cabinet Vision and ProKitchen. If I was only laying out and designing cabinetry, I would go with ProKitchen for value. However none of these programs are very appropriate for general design work. We have used Architrion, BOA and VectorWorks and continue to use Sketchup and PowerCad.

Our normal workflow might have us designing in Sketchup, detailing in PowerCad and doing kitchen layout/pricing in ProKitchen. We have been looking for a primarily on program solution for most our needs. Unfortunately we couldn't find a Mac native program that was scaled and priced for our needs. If we worked on large non-residential projects, we would have probably purchased ArchiCad.

After trying Chief Architect on our intel Mac under Bootcamp, we decided that it would meet most of our needs. I agree with many of you that the pricing component in 20/20 or ProKitchen is quick and easy. But I find that these programs tend to influence design decisions by promoting normal, convenient solutions. We do some "outrageous" things with "semi custom" cabinets. A lot of our work is custom, so pricing is not available in any program. In this case we provide very detailed designs to the shop for pricing.

I believe with time we can construct a reasonably effective pricing routine in CA. It may never be as quick as a dedicated cabinet software, but it should suffice. I would like to see more flexibility in the cabinet design and layout tools in CA. Maybe the next version?

[Gene Davis]

I am a new Chief user, so forgive me if what I have to say about cabinets might not square with what the software is currently capable of doing. Some of what I am seeking in capabilities might be there now, and I just have not found it yet.

We do both design and build work, and use name brand cabinetry, totally custom cabinetry, and a version of totally custom cabinetry we build (this is most of what we do) for which we use eCabinets software for the design, then outsource the parts, carcase parts from a CNC shop, fronts and drawers and panels from someone like Conestoga or Walzcraft, and hardware and specialties from wholesalers.

Having spent a couple of months with eCabinets developing and refining the complete "line" we need for seed cabinets, and including all the door, drawer, panel, hardware, and finish option pricing we need for accurate pricing development, I can say that it is probably far too complex a project for Chief to want to undertake, to deliver manufacturer-specific pricing.

It seems to me that it is more important for the Chief render to have the overall look correct. For example, if a crown mold "looks" reasonable as to height and reach, it doesn't matter that the actual bead and ogee pattern doesn't match what will be supplied. The crownmold patterns available from just one of our suppliers go on for pages and pages.

I have found I can use Chief to build and render most any kitchen we can design, but to really complete a package with a lot of elements, Chief would need to supply me with these additional capabilities:

1. A way to build and install stile-and-rail end panels and back panels, of the type to dress the ends and backs of islands and peninsulas.

2. The same for the kind of custom vent hood arrangements that are done to match details for the doors and panels seen in the cabinets.

3. Rendering capabilities so that when elevation shots are taken of cab runs, pullout drawers, shelving, and lazy susan turntables all have the option of showing dotted behind doors, in the rendering.

4. A very large library of appliances to cover a much broader selection of hood, fridge, range, oven, cooktop, and microwave/microhood looks than there are now. I am not requesting full manufacturer lines at all here, because that could go on forever. Just for a broader selection of basic configs, so that a kitchen rendered in Chief is fairly representative of what the client will get.

5. In rendering, the ability to have anything like a 5-piece door, or stile and rail panel, be rendered with true woodgrain orientation. Furthermore in rendering, a reasonable selection of woodgrained textures and colors.

6. Linear undercabinet lighting, including all the abilities in rendering for adjusting light. Pucks and boxes don't do it for us.

7. Since when we do the cab builds ourselves (which is most of the time), and since we do frameless, an easier way than today's workaround, for doing AFEs (that's applied finished ends in cabspeak).

In my opinion, the application developers at Chief should continue as they are apparently doing, studying the details, features, and options of the various manufacturers, so as to then build into the native Chief software, the ability to model a complex kitchen more completely. This, for me, is far more important than getting into play manufacturer-specific libraries. The manufacturers are constantly evolving their product lines and adding new products and features, and any library issued would be out of date quickly.

[Adrean]

One additional note:
If your brand is not in the poll, but someone else has already mentioned it, feel free to mention it again...
This way I can get of feel for the popularity of brands that I couldn't fit on the poll.

JoAnne, I hear you. Hopefully one thing that we will be able to eventually do, which isn't technically pricing, is create better tools to track accessories, add-ons, and other cabinet modifications. This way, you can have a much more accurate list that requires only that the prices get plugged in. In theory, you could then update your Master List, which should get you quite closer to auto-pricing in Chief Architect.

[perryh]

I use nothing but custom cabinets in all my designs and work with my cabinet maker for final designs with all the goodies that I may not be aware of.

[Adrean]

Great comments, Gene...

I think this explains in general what we hope to make Chief Architect do, in addition brand-name catalogs.
Also, some very good feature requests, which I've noted!

[Steve S]

Some good points have been made about adding more cabinet tools as opposed to libraries; it would be great if it were easier to 1)add moldings such as Enkeboll's, 2)add quarter, half, and full legs to backs and sides of cabinets, and 3)select and drop wood hoods such as Stanici.

[lgc30642]

I often use "Crystal".....a Canadian company for imported, custom finishes, but I also agree with the Shiloh suggestion previously mentioned.
I have also used KitchenKraft.....but most of the time the customer has a preference based on a local cabinet dealer's brands.

[Adrean]

Great...

I'm still keeping track!

[DBJ]

MidContenent, Woodland and Woodpro for bathrooms.

[MEB540]

Plain and Fancy

and

Yorktown

[Adrean]

Max--
I understand your sentiments.
I also hope that we will continue to make progress on the materials list and pricing aspects of Chief Architect. Until the tools are fully available, we can continue to make headway in these other areas of value, like manufacturer specific data.

Thanks for your comments!

[Max]

Max--
I understand your sentiments.
I also hope that we will continue to make progress on the materials list and pricing aspects of Chief Architect. Until the tools are fully available, we can continue to make headway in these other areas of value, like manufacturer specific data.

Thanks for your comments!

Adrean,
I did drift off topic after you had asked about farming out pricing, which is absurd to have to do. Anyway, my bad. (Lew, I am really trying here!)

The point here, when it gets right down to it, most cannot hardly tell the difference from one brand to another when they are represented in such as Chief. Which brings up the question, what's the point? In order to actually show the details in such a way as to truely define the difference then you will have to make the tools needed to create those differences. Otherwise, there is no difference except maybe someone labled them differently and changed a dim or two. If you do make the tools to create the differences, well...Need I explain this? You seem like a bright girl.

I get a bit ruffled over this kind of marketing hype and misrepresented value, especially in light of the recent introduction of SSV or whatever it was called.

Max

[marksandsoy]

For what it's worth, I don't recognize any of the manufacturers listed, but I'm not concerned with it. When I add cabinets, I'm only concerned about what they look like, not who builds them. After the drawings are approved, they go to local manufacturing shops for a bid, and maybe by chance, they may go to one of the listed manufacturers. The most important thing for me is to be able to show anything the client may want. Who builds them and knowing immediately how much they will cost is not important to me.
Thanks

[marksandsoy]

I don't recognize any of the manufacturers listed. But when I design the cabinets, I'm not concerned with who makes them or how much they will cost. I'll try to stay with 3" increments because I understand that's a good standard (like stud spacing of 16" o.c). After cabinet drawings are complete, it's time to go get prices which is usually thru local cabinet shops, who can build anything. If a client wants to go to a manufacturer listed, that is their choice and I can design within those limits. But the first priority is designing what the client wants, not designing for what a manufacturer has to offer. Just my two cents worth.
Mark

[RJ75]

I'd like to see Bertch, Schrock, and Ultracraft