Lighting Short Circuits

[ConfusedUser]

Just started using X4 and cutting my teeth on a kitchen design.

Within 30 minutes I am now completely disillusioned with the lighting implementation within X4...

Attached is a pdf from my latest attempt and failure at trying to light the "kitchen."

I have tried turning lights on and off, deleting all lights and recreating as well as changing multiple settings with all kinds of various results but nothing really works.

You can see from the attached image that two pucks under the cabinets are on (out of five that should be on) and if you look to the ceiling, five of the six fixtures seems to be "on" with no lighting in the kitchen and the sixth is really all the way off. And the one "puck" actually shines through the sink! Must be a real cheap sink and cabinet...

Please - what is the secret to using lighting in X4.

There must be some way to make this work... At one point I had three 'pucks" and four overhead lights working and if I would turn off a puck - the next one in the sequence would turn on... This is really frustrating....!!!!!

There has to be some secret to this...

Ralph

[sutcac]

Are you looking from one "room" into another "room"? There was another thread not too long ago with a similar issue-

http://www.chieftalk.com/showthread....=lights&page=2

See if that helps.

[ConfusedUser]

Thanks for the direction but unfortunately no smile yet...

First, I now understand the "limit" of "camera" views to 8 sources so that really limits things when you are designing with a more dramatic lighting focus...

As far as looking from one room to the next - the room is a kitchen off of a dining room that really has no walls - so it is just one large room. I tried to "wall it off" with an invisible wall - tried moving from one area to another and tried several other options - no change.

Then I tried to raytrace - image is very black considering that there are six 100w spots plus the "pucks" in the room so that is not even a solution unless I have some other setting wrong.

Again - thanks for the suggestion - but "no smile" from here.

Ralph

[sutcac]

Well, I don't think the normal render view is meant to show "dramatic lighting focus", only to give you, maybe, a rough idea of where the lighting are pointing/showing. More "dramatic" stuff is really meant for raytracing.

If you can zip and post the plans here (make sure Chief is closed when you zip the file and it must be under 2MB) we might be able to give you more direction. In a word, though, I don't think it is a bug or anything, just the way Chief works.

[David J. Potter]

Ralph,

Frustration is the lot of the learner and even "old-timers" like me and many others are not immune as well.

Rendering with any software program is not learned overnight or in a month of Sundays.

Never the less you are on the right track, since from frustration, comes eventual knowledge, competence and judgement.

Carefully study the Reference manual sections on "Lighting, Rendering, Ray Tracing, Materials" and how these can be adjusted to meet your needs is what you need to do (and you are doing that now). I remember several Chief Users who just short years ago had just started the software like you who are now professional 3-D modelers and sell their renderings and animations professionally. They had to sweat blood and put in the time to win through to the success they desired and did so. There is no easy way, there is only "the way out is the way through ( existing difficulties)"

DJP

[Doug Park]

It looks like in your original image you are getting spot lights showing. Note the circle on the counter and light in the sink. I can also see the circles of the spots on the walls so some lights are on.

Try widening the angle of the spot lights. It looks like the angle is very tight on the puck lights under the counter.

You may also need to increase the intensity of the lights. Try a higher wattage. These intensities are very approximate as the lighting model used by OpenGL is not capable of real world light modeling so you will need to make some adjustments to get the effects you want.

Even if we could do perfect modeling your monitor is not capable of displaying it because it can't display full spectrum of brightness that you get in real life.

Bottom line, if it's too dark, add more light. Either by increasing the number of lights or increasing the intensity.

[perryh]

I add "light sources" all over the plan in every room that is needed, then turn off in plan view. The program will only use 8 max, per rendering or raytrace, depending on your video card. Light sources can increase light without adding lite fixtures. You can adjust them just like lite fixtures. You just have to make sure the light source is adjusted correctly,( 1st or 2nd flr, and height)

[ConfusedUser]

Doug and Perry,

Thanks for your feedback - that explains some of what is going on and that the "light sources" are more important than I realized. Also - knowing that the results are not as accurate as I was expecting helps - I am used to having to apply fudge factors and work-arounds.

David,

I might have lead you down the wrong path...

I have been deeply involved in CAD/CAM/PLM/PDM and architectural software since the early 80s. I have programmed them, used them personally, taught them, sold and installed them and customized them to meet customers needs. I am very familiar with 2D/3D as used with Wireframe/Surface/Solids/Parametrics/Analytics/Mechanisms and I also have been using CA since version X2. I have designed everything from Turbine blades and interocular implants through cars, over the road bus and military aircraft - so "cutting my teeth" was meant to indicate that I was new to X4...

And hence my frustration... I was expecting much more from X4 and so I will need to learn/relearn the X4 "tips and techniques" to obtain the results I am expecting...

Just sorry that my expectations were higher and causing frustration...

But I really do appreciate guidance from those that have more experience in a product then I!

Ralph

[Allen Brown]

Ralph, read here, it might help: http://chiefarchitecttraining.blogsp...1_archive.html

[ConfusedUser]

Allen,

Thank you VERY much! It helped very much!

I think I have something now that will make the client smile and of course me SMILE!

Most appreciate the guidance. The visuals helped a lot.

I am also working on a full house in the near future and will need some assistance there. Your contact info is recorded...

Thanks again,
Ralph

[Allen Brown]

You're very welcome.

[Doug Maddox]

Allen,

Thanks for the reference. Been playing for awhile with some improvement but this really helped. Thanks again.

Doug Maddox

[gail45]

I'm still battling with lighting in 3D views. The defaut settings wash all colour out of the rendering, and I've adjusted just about everything there is to adjust...interior ambient settting, brighten ceilings on and off, lumins of each fixture adjusted...it's terrible and ruins all the perspectives. If I lower the lighting enough, the view is sometimes black. Never had this problem before in X3, this has only been a problem since I upgraded to X4.

[Allen Brown]

Hi Gail, Welcome To ChiefTalk.

Have you read the info posted here: http://chiefarchitecttraining.blogsp...1_archive.html it might help. It was written for X3, but applies to X4 as well.

[keithhe]

Kind of related, I think..... I have 4 exterior lights, on a rear patio. Only one will ever turn on at a time. I can get any one to turn on or off, but if one is lit, trying to turn any of the other three on turns the first off, and so on? I tried deleting these all and placing again, but didn't help. Also, note that the DBX seems to have these all named exactly the same, but no way to change that.

Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks !!