Color to Lineweight

[WendyWelton]

Bob,

This is the fastest and most reliable method I've found.

Once you have imported once, and made the adjustment, those layers with retain the new settings in Chief.

However, you will need to watch the layer assignment when you import. Run a couple of tests to see if your layers with the same name will path to their counterpart in Chief, or if you will need to use Advanced Layer Mapping, which will be time consuming with 150 layers.

Another speed tip - The import wizard will only automatically import layers that are Thawed in the dwg. I generally Freeze as many as possible, and only import what I really need.

Dan,

Switching to Named Plot Styles in acad is no easier than simply adjusting on import into Chief. If you're used to using the older color based method, it's a significant change. If you're only accessing legacy details, it's totally not worth the effort. It's also a one-way street. Once you change a file from CTB to STB, you can't go back.

If you guys at Chief want to make this easier, there are two approaches you could take.

The first would be to improve the translation. You could add a screen to the import wizard that let's us tell it what color becomes which line weight, or add a screen that let's us accomplish this translation by having it access the *.CTB (color table) file, which is where autocad stores this info.

The second would be to improve import so that layers with the same name in the dwg file reliably send info to the same layer in Chief. That means addressing the names vs. numbers for layers thing. Personally, I find this running an awful lot of my layer standardization and so think it needs to be addressed anyway - so this would be my choice.

With the incredible number of autocad users to be plucked as converts, and the huge number of legacy dwg format files they need to access, I have to think anything improving dwg access would help with sales.

[Madriver]

Bob,

This is the fastest and most reliable method I've found.

Once you have imported once, and made the adjustment, those layers with retain the new settings in Chief.

However, you will need to watch the layer assignment when you import. Run a couple of tests to see if your layers with the same name will path to their counterpart in Chief, or if you will need to use Advanced Layer Mapping, which will be time consuming with 150 layers.

Another speed tip - The import wizard will only automatically import layers that are Thawed in the dwg. I generally Freeze as many as possible, and only import what I really need.

Dan,

Switching to Named Plot Styles in acad is no easier than simply adjusting on import into Chief. If you're used to using the older color based method, it's a significant change. If you're only accessing legacy details, it's totally not worth the effort. It's also a one-way street. Once you change a file from CTB to STB, you can't go back.

If you guys at Chief want to make this easier, there are two approaches you could take.

The first would be to improve the translation. You could add a screen to the import wizard that let's us tell it what color becomes which line weight, or add a screen that let's us accomplish this translation by having it access the *.CTB (color table) file, which is where autocad stores this info.

The second would be to improve import so that layers with the same name in the dwg file reliably send info to the same layer in Chief. That means addressing the names vs. numbers for layers thing. Personally, I find this running an awful lot of my layer standardization and so think it needs to be addressed anyway - so this would be my choice.

With the incredible number of autocad users to be plucked as converts, and the huge number of legacy dwg format files they need to access, I have to think anything improving dwg access would help with sales.

thanks Wendy

The first would be to improve the translation. You could add a screen to the import wizard that let's us tell it what color becomes which line weight, or add a screen that let's us accomplish this translation by having it access the *.CTB (color table) file, which is where autocad stores this info.

...yep...this or the ability to assign color to line weight in the display options. So, it appears that AC to CA will not retain line weight during import translation. Fair enough, Wendy thanks for the info, I hope Chief has you on retainer.

Bob

[carpenterguy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WendyWelton
Bob,

This is the fastest and most reliable method I've found.

Once you have imported once, and made the adjustment, those layers with retain the new settings in Chief.

However, you will need to watch the layer assignment when you import. Run a couple of tests to see if your layers with the same name will path to their counterpart in Chief, or if you will need to use Advanced Layer Mapping, which will be time consuming with 150 layers.

Another speed tip - The import wizard will only automatically import layers that are Thawed in the dwg. I generally Freeze as many as possible, and only import what I really need.

Dan,

Switching to Named Plot Styles in acad is no easier than simply adjusting on import into Chief. If you're used to using the older color based method, it's a significant change. If you're only accessing legacy details, it's totally not worth the effort. It's also a one-way street. Once you change a file from CTB to STB, you can't go back.

If you guys at Chief want to make this easier, there are two approaches you could take.

The first would be to improve the translation. You could add a screen to the import wizard that let's us tell it what color becomes which line weight, or add a screen that let's us accomplish this translation by having it access the *.CTB (color table) file, which is where autocad stores this info.

The second would be to improve import so that layers with the same name in the dwg file reliably send info to the same layer in Chief. That means addressing the names vs. numbers for layers thing. Personally, I find this running an awful lot of my layer standardization and so think it needs to be addressed anyway - so this would be my choice.

With the incredible number of autocad users to be plucked as converts, and the huge number of legacy dwg format files they need to access, I have to think anything improving dwg access would help with sales.

thanks Wendy

Quote:
The first would be to improve the translation. You could add a screen to the import wizard that let's us tell it what color becomes which line weight, or add a screen that let's us accomplish this translation by having it access the *.CTB (color table) file, which is where autocad stores this info.

...yep...this or the ability to assign color to line weight in the display options. So, it appears that AC to CA will not retain line weight during import translation. Fair enough, Wendy thanks for the info, I hope Chief has you on retainer.

Bob

Why do you keep posting the quotes of others?

Andy.

[WendyWelton]

Hey Bob,

I just ran a couple of quick tests.

You can change your acad setup so that layers have both color and lineweight - and both come into Chief intact. If you're sticking to objects with color "bylayer", which has always been industry best practice, you're all set. If you're not - learn to love acad's Filter command and use that to correct quickly correct things.

Also - I tested exactly how long it takes to sort by color in Chief and change to the correct lineweights that way. For the 20 different colors you mentioned, it took less than 2 minutes. So, whether you change them in acad first, or change them in Chief after, we're talking about less than 120 seconds.

I'm officially not so much thinking this should be real far up the priority list.

[Berdinkerdickle]

Another option, that I think Wendy's last post aluded to, is to make your line weight changes I Acad first. In Acad sort your layers by color, and then assign the line weights to your 20 some colors. So when you import to chief you get the wieght and colors you want.
I have an Engineer that I work with that still uses the old color dependant plot style. And the method above is how I get everything to look and plot properly.

[Madriver]

ACAD uses both, in a ctb file you can set up lineweight by color, by layer, even use a pen # for really old dudes. Color dependant line weight is useful when you want to change a line weight on a line and not an entire layer. By having color and or layer line weight it gives you the flexability to adjust output without universal changes. It really has nothing to do with old pen plotters, although it does retain that plot style mentality if you need it. Flexibility is the key, when you have more you can achive and solve problems that are specific to your needs.

BTW, color in model space has nothing to do with line weight display on screen. LWT does.

Wendy

When I bring a Chief file into AC it retains line weight and color, in fact you can see the corrosponding mm conversion vs pixel. However, it did not retain the line weight attributes when I export back into Chief. All AC layers have color and a line weight, the layers match (layer names and attributes are set the same in both). How did you get Chief to retain LW, or is it a version problem?

Thanks

Bob

PS - Chief is GREAT O.K....I am learning it...I'm fine with it...I still use ACAD....I'm not a hater...

[Madriver]

Thanks Wendy

Got it.....it works.

Thanks

Bob

[WendyWelton]

A little known, or little understood, aspect of importing dwg files:

Chief has layer numbers "under the hood" and the hidden numbers govern, not the layer name. Because of this I almost always take the extra time to use Advanced Layer Mapping. If you don't, you can end up with a very confusing array of duplicate layers with the same name.

To test this - start with two clean plans that both use Chief's default profile plan with no other layers added. Add a single layer to each. In the first plan call the new layer Fred. In the second plan call the new layer Alice. Export the layer list from the Alice plan and import it into the Fred plan. It will overwrite the Fred layer with the Alice layer. In autocad, or any name based layer system, you would end up with both Fred and Alice.

If your incoming dwg plans always have the same layer names, you might be able to reliably import without using Advanced Layer Mapping, if you don't change the incoming layer names. Run some tests to see.

[Berdinkerdickle]

Yea, the Engineer I work with gets pretty defensive about color dependant also.

But, we live in a world where people share files.

So the only way color dependant will work is if either we all adopt a standard where certain colors are always certain line weights. Or we send our ctb along to everyone we share our files with.

Color dependant is great for perhaps a firm where all use the same ctb.

But named can be shared all over the world and everything plots the way it should.

[WendyWelton]

When I bring a Chief file into AC it retains line weight and color, in fact you can see the corrosponding mm conversion vs pixel. However, it did not retain the line weight attributes when I export back into Chief. All AC layers have color and a line weight, the layers match (layer names and attributes are set the same in both). How did you get Chief to retain LW, or is it a version problem?

Bob PM'd me saying he found the solution. I'm posting here for the benefit of others finding this thread. Make sure you check the box for keeping layer attributes coming in.

Also - notice that the newly imported items stay selected. You can immediately open them and change any settings for all if you wish. I generally make sure "bylayer" is checked for color, lineweight, linetype, etc. For some reason colr and lineweight usually come in just fine, but items that are linetype "bylayer" in acad often come in as "continuous" in Chief.

[Madriver]

the ctb table is the key but only if the recipient has ACAD.

Wendy, right on. I set the "user layer" up to match in both. Everything translates, the problem was as you said in the ACAD layering as the line weights were set to default. Once I set the LW specific to the layer it works. I will set up a seperate prototype specific to this client with LW set to layer. I find this restrictive, but as long as it translates I will use it for that client. Again, with the ability to plot LW by color it gives you the flexability to adjust output within a layer. ACAD "Properties" command is also useful, but for the oldskewl ACAD users that came up with color dependant LW it still is a very useful option. All I would say to the Chief developers is that "MORE IS MORE"!!! The more options I have, the more better it is.

**** who knows, after I figure out Chief I may even switch 100%.........if you allow menu editing and dcl programing...open architecture.....an open box....it works....

Thanks to all

Bob

[Ray C]

Chief has layer numbers "under the hood" and the hidden numbers govern, not the layer name. .

Hi
And I believe it is these hidden numbers that screw up bringing legacy plans forward.
I wonder what happens when we copy a layer,,, say I make a copy of “walls, normal” and Chief renames it “walls, normal2”,,, and now down the road, X2 ?,,, I open an X1 plan in X2, will chief be moving the walls on “walls, normal2” to “walls, normal” the default layer?

That seems to be what is happening bringing 9.5 plans up to 10.o.

Ray

[Doug Park]

Do you think that the color = line weight "best practice" is here to stay or do you think it's on it's way out?

More specifically, given that we don't use pen plotters anymore, what is the remaining value of this convention other than for importing legacy drawings?

[WendyWelton]

Doug,

Color = Lineweight is not what I was refering to as "best practice". I was referring to color, lineweight and linetype being "bylayer".

It was, and still is, the case that if you "hardwire" entities to these attributes, you lose flexibility - you lose the ability to change how things appear and print for different purposes.

Color=lineweight will be with us for a long time, because there's a huge user base still on autocad 14 or 2004, who learned back in the plotter days, only use acad 2D, never saw a need to upgrade further or to switch to the newer, more intuitive and more flexible lineweight = lineweight system. Even for those who switched to the new system, they have legacy plans and details.

So the remaining value is purely legacy support - and support for a system that hasn't been the default for autocad for a a solid 10 years now.

If you're going to spend programmer time on import issues, A much larger issue is the layers numbers vs. layer names. Cleaning that up would have benefits within Chief, and the benefits to importing of value, but merely a nice side effect.

[Madriver]

Do you think that the color = line weight "best practice" is here to stay or do you think it's on it's way out?

More specifically, given that we don't use pen plotters anymore, what is the remaining value of this convention other than for importing legacy drawings?

Color to LW gives you the ability to control output within a layer or layers rather than universal change. Example-you can highlight a group of linework, change it's color without changing the layers and have that highlighted group plot as as seperate expressed group. So rather than using or changing to another layer, I can simply change the color and have my output change accordingly. I don't need seperate layers to control LW.

Bob