Configured window and door 3D DWG tool

[PeteJohnson]

I work at a window and door manufacturing software company and we're looking to put together a tool that will allow Chief Architect users to configure window and door products and generate a 3D dwg file. Our vision is to provide a website or possibly even a browser window launched within Chief Architect that would allow you to select a manufacturer, configure a unit (i.e. double hung window w/ a RO of 24 3/4" x 35 1/2", tempered glass and antique brass hardware) and then download a dwg of that configuration to import into Chief Architect.

Some questions for Chief Architect users are:
- Would a 3D dwg representation of a specific window or door be useful at all?
- What are the most important features of a window/door (i.e. RO size, grill bar appearances, glass type, hardware, etc) that you would like to see included in the dwg?
- Is there any interest in having a list of pre-configured units that you could choose from rather than selecting individual options and creating a configured unit?

I'm interested in all forms of feedback (if you think this is a terrible idea, let me know!) that people may have.

(Please note that this post is not intended as an advertisement or solicitation. Rather we'd like the feedback of the users who we hope would utilize this tool. I apologize in advance if the moderators find this post inappropriate.)

[Allen Brown]

- Would a 3D dwg representation of a specific window or door be useful at all?

I don't think so. What would be useful, is having your windows in the Chief Library as window symbols, that we could insert into our walls. Marvin Windows has already done that. However, that being said, if I were you, I would not waste my time unless you did a much better job than Marvin did. The windows they created that Chief put in our library, are the ugliest things I've ever seen, and I refuse to put them in any house I design. I'm not saying I have a problem with Marvin windows, they are a fine product. I just have a problem with the window symbols they created.

- Is there any interest in having a list of pre-configured units that you could choose from rather than selecting individual options and creating a configured unit?

If you set your windows up properly in the Chief library, we can set the "window defaults" with whatever options and hardware that is available, before we start placing windows in the house.

Where what you are suggesting would be helpful, is when a customer specified your brand during the design process, we could put your windows in the plan, and the window schedule would (in theory) specify all pertinent information such as model #, options, R.O., etc.

On the down side, most of my customers don't specify a brand during the design process, So I rarely ever know what brand goes into their home. Just so you know, I am strictly a designer, not a design/builder, so I don't try to push a customer towards a window manufacturer that I like, or that might give me some kickbacks.

[Allen42acj]

I think windows for the library that have the labels set up would be great..
Then when you make a schedule,the right information comes through..

[jonathank]

I don't think I'm lazy to the point to where I can't change the size manually. For the most part I'm pretty lazy....but I think that's a little overboard.

And also I agree with Allen B. Most of the windows in the manufacturer libraries are so ugly I wouldn't put them in any design of mine. In fact I don't.

So I guess all in all...this is a terrible idea

[ARCHIJEF2000]

What on earth is "a window and door manufacturing software company", and what's the name of this company.

Isn't this where Lew Buttery normally says "warning warning warning, this is spam"

[PeteJohnson]

First off, thanks for all the feedback so far.

What we're thinking the advantage would be for a tool like this would be to have the ability to exactly spec out windows and then drop them in. But if as a designer you do not care who the manufacturer is or what the exact RO is, then this would be unnecessary.

I've also played around w/ Marvin's windows some. I guess I don't find them hideous but as a programmer my taste in aesthetics could be considered questionable. I was able to modify the sizes regardless if it originally came from a 40 width or 48 width so RO measurements could be less than reliable. Appears that any symbol can be manipulated, any way to "lock" a symbol down?

Also it sounds like the most useful would be to generate a CA library w/ the available options. If that was not available, would anyone mess around w/ a dwg file? Or would people just use something that's "close enough" in a CA library?

An issue w/ creating CA libraries (besides technical issues) is that product lines change (available hardware, RO sizes, etc). In order to have the most up to date data, you'd have to download new CA libraries. Again, maybe not a concern for most folks...

[ktkcad]

Also it sounds like the most useful would be to generate a CA library w/ the available options. If that was not available, would anyone mess around w/ a dwg file? Or would people just use something that's "close enough" in a CA library?

Close enough works fine for construction documents that only have to pass permit. If the owner wishes to preplan the framing then RO has some meaning.

An issue w/ creating CA libraries (besides technical issues) is that product lines change (available hardware, RO sizes, etc). In order to have the most up to date data, you'd have to download new CA libraries. Again, maybe not a concern for most folks...

The more symbols the merrier. Just give us a quick method for clearing out the out of date ones.

[WendyWelton]

- Would a 3D dwg representation of a specific window or door be useful at all?.

If you mean a 3D symbol that can be inserted into our model, like the windows we have now, then - Yes - especially one's that accurately represent the slope of the sill, with the subsequent difference in interior and exterior sill heights.

- What are the most important features of a window/door (i.e. RO size, grill bar appearances, glass type, hardware, etc) that you would like to see included in the dwg?

Accurate 3D, including
1 - First and foremost for me - the sill I just mentioned
2 - The ability to show the grilles in all ways offered (between the glass vs. spacer w/ interior & exterior grilles, profiles on the grilles, etc.
3 - Screens - both full and half - that render correctly. They really do change the way a window looks in both real life and in a rendering.
4 - The jamb liner as a separate material, so we can accurately show what that white or beige strip looks like.
5 - Hardware, with material options.

- Is there any interest in having a list of pre-configured units that you could choose from rather than selecting individual options and creating a configured unit?

Yes, I'd like to have the same chart as is in the catalog - and also be able to do custom sizes.

[WendyWelton]

btw Guys,

Before we assume this is spam, let's take a step back and look. I don't see any solitation happening, just questions. And - wasn't there a movement to get more window manufacturer's to play nice in the sandbox with Chief? We have no idea why he's not disclosing a brand. I'm choosing to invest all of 5 minutes in the discussion on the off chance that is real.

[Thane Pearson]

I have talked to the Pella, Andersen and Eagle reps about spending a little time to produce the window files for Chief. They all like the idea but seem to think the DWG files with sections and details are more useful. Not!

[WendyWelton]

I have talked to the Pella, Andersen and Eagle reps about spending a little time to produce the window files for Chief. They all like the idea but seem to think the DWG files with sections and details are more useful. Not!

(bold mine)

Bingo. We're doing an integrated model, not some eye-wash followed by dinking around the old fashioned way.

[PeteJohnson]

We have confidentiality agreements with all of our clients, that's why I can't disclose manufacturer names (my hands are tied on that one). What I am gathering so far is that for something like this to be useful for users, it would need to be generating CA libraries, not just a dwg that can be dropped in. I have been playing around with the symbol generator to see if I could get a dwg of a window to become a window symbol in CA (not so easy). If we were able to streamline that process, could that be useful? It might not have all the options available like a library but it would "play nice" with the integrated model.

Regarding the 3D aspects, generating the sill shouldn't be an issue nor should hardware. Rendering the grille and screen options is interesting, I hadn't though about those challenges yet. These are some good suggestions.

[Thane Pearson]

Just having the full line of sizes with RO's and labels filled in is helpful. I don't need hardware/colors/screen/lite options. We can change that as needed. It's quite easy in Chief to use the default window and modify to the window specification of the manufacturer. I have the ones I use (Pella,Andersen,Eagle) saved in my window library. I only suggested to my window reps because I think it would be a good marking tool to offer to the many Chief Users in the world, not unlike the Whirlpool and Sketchup partnership.

[WendyWelton]

Thane,

The default window does not have the correct relationship between interior and exterior sills. The rest, yes, we can handle. Have you ever tried to get a truly correct window at the kitchen sink - with the sill the right distance from the backsplash on the inside and the exterior sill aligned with some trim?

[billemery]

Wendy,
I've noticed that the interior sill is a problem. The interior casing is a problem as well; it would be nice if we could set a negative value for the casing reveal so that it partially covers the surround. Negative values would allow us to show the trim accurately, and might lessen the sill problem as well.

I use a lot of five inch fluted casing and it would be nice to accurately show its placement. My casing values are generally off by half of an inch; this can be significant when windows and doors are close together or when I'm close into a corner.

On a similar note I have to increase door height to allow for finish floor and undercut, or exterior sill if I want them to relate correctly to the windows in elevation. This can be significant if there is running trim at or near head height. The problem with this correction is that it makes for an odd door height on the plan, and in the schedule. Door casings however, seem to work as they should inside and outside.