Research: Text and Callouts

[WendyWelton]

Al,

Good point (about priorities & programming time). For me, my priority order would be this:

1 - Annotation Styles - in whatever form they come up with. Just please, 1 click, not 13. I like Larry's image - (post #37 in this thread). Of this list, this is the only one where my head may actually burst into flames if X2 comes out without seriously moving this football, and moving it smoothly and elegantly, within chief.

3 - Smart text that attaches to a polyline and gives it's sf. I really want a better way than the current scratch pad method for dealing with sf calculations. OK, this is only sorta, kinda, a "text and callouts" thing. I'm pretending I'm running for president and putting my pet sound bite into everything, whether it has anything to do with the actual question or not!

4 - Font Runs. My head won't burst into flames, but I'll be very disappointed, on the grounds that it just seems royally silly to be doing multiple text blocks side by side and on top of each other to get the desired effect. I literally have 3 pieces of text for every notes list - the title (bold and underlined), the numbers to the left and then the words themselves. If I edit the words, I have to check the numbers to see if I have to add spaces. It's Mickey and Minney. And no, using tab to make a table doesn't work, because tables don't word wrap! OK, how about this - if we can't have font runs, can we at least get word wrap into tables?

5 - Better callouts - Have them obey the default text layer, the option to put a fill in the arrow part, and designate the color of the fill. My head won't burst into flames, but I'll be very disappointed. It also seems like it should be more "low hanging fruit" than not.

6 - More on Callouts - The ability to add a line and/or line with arrow to any text within a shape. I use different shapes for different symbols for different things, and to have one piece instead of two would speed things up.

This would be my X2 list. Font runs is higher up my list than callouts, but only by a hair.

[JP Ware]

Inserting additional text and dimension layers is something that any user can do. Automatic default text and dimension layers for each layerset is only part of the solution, That is not the answer to scaling problems, which is the greater part of the problem. Dimension and text styles that include all of the current settings plus a layer assignment is the answer. Implementation need be nothing more than a drop down list for selecting from the preset styles, although hotkey customization would be a good alternative. I'd shave 30% of my time off the annotation for a typical plan set if I could select pre-set text styles with pre-set custom properties for layer, text size, justification, color, arrow type, and arrow size. Ideally, the same thing would be available for dimensions. At the very minimum, there should be some way to quickly rescale dimensions. Why, in vers 10 and XI, can I select a dimension object, and open the transform dialogue, but not have access to the resize function? That would be a pretty crude way to manage dimension scaling, but it would be better than what is currently available.

Take a look at how AutoCad handles text and dims, imo it is one of the programs few redeeming features, text styles and dimension styles.

[HumbleChief]

I just added a couple of call-outs to a plan before discovering this thread and thought, "Hey it'd be cool to be able to customize the cross section line, or at least have a couple of choices in a drop down box of how they might look." I like the little flag at the end of the line like in Wendy's post above. I'd also like to add black or gray to the call-out as suggested.

It's kinda funny about this thread. I've given up a bit on having any kind of text tools in Chief and have muscled through most of my default text and tables and saved it in the library. Trying to think back on what frustrated me most and I think it is the way tabs behave.

When I use a word processor a tab gets your text lined up where spaces won't. In Chief's text using a tab gets you a table or something that I don't even recognize and CANNOT use. So I'm forced to use spaces to line up indents but they are never right and I never remember how many spaces I've used. So I go back a couple of times adding spaces to get the indents lined up and it's a PITA. So - suggestion - have tabs behave like word processor tabs and not turn text into a table (or whatever that thing is that Chief does). This could ease the making of any list, numbered or not.

I can live without being able to bold a word or two in any text run but that feature would make Chief's text editor look like a real text editor.

Here's a feature that no one's mentioned and it might a bit out there but I would LOVE to be able to enter and edit text directly on screen and on layer. Just click a spot and start typing text right into a plan with no dbx needed to enter all your text into. You could have your default text attributes and styles set up and any changes would require a right click and get you to a dbx to change the attribute. Or even select a single word on screen and select a bold button - done.

And of course, I think it was mentioned as the Holy Grail - have each callout number associate itself with the layout page it actually ends up on. Can't remember how many changes I've gotten back for the city saying the there is no A-2 on A-2 because I had to relocate it with a plan change but forgot to renumber everything. I guess if I could have one thing it would be that.

[Allen42acj]

There is not a lot in the tutorials about Call outs and Markers..

[Ben Palmer]

Great suggestions. I haven't read through all of them, so these may be repeats:

-leader to automatically be the same layer as the text (child parent relationship) a drop down layer menu would help change layers quickly when we forget to change the defaults.
- formatting: bold, italics, underline, fonts, size, etc. within the same text box, and the formatting is seen in the text box the way it will appear WYSIWYG.
- tables, tabbing that also reflect spatially WYSIWYG in the text box before it is in the plan. This is especially helpful for specifications with lots of text. perhaps adding automatic formatting for bullet and numbering indentations

...basically looking for word similar behaviour....where possible.

Tables that have customizable lines for headings, body, footer, totals, and minor spreadsheet functionality...at least some simple math formulas. This would help tremendously with certain calculations such as electric loads, fixture calcs, gas schematics, etc, and ensure accuracy.

I like the callout options that have been mentioned.

[Kelly K]

Wow - a lot of traffic here.

I agree with most things stated here - particularly simplifying the multi-tab option comments......

What he said.

"Finally, I would like to have an actual table command that gives me normal, intuitive tabbed areas to work with like any normal WP program. A true WYSIWYG type setup. If you want to see how not to do it, check out how autocad does tables."

I like this idea better than mine with the menus (still stuck in the 20th century with dos). I liked drop down menus because it was like having a check list to edit my plan work. Of course the tabs and tables would have to be user definable, with the ability to add tabs & tables.

Back in ver. 9 the people at chief suggested that we create a plan file and place objects that we commonly copy paste. That I did, then discovered the hot keys in ver 10 that I mapped to my third mouse. I became a copy paste wizard. With X1 the power of copy has been improved immensely, but at the sacrifice of my prior methodology.

I have migrated some of my text work to the library, but to me this is less than satisfactory because the library items retains focus until I esc. out of them. The use of multiple mice, or flat forgetting that I have a library item selected (I get mesmerized and don't pay attention to my cursor), for me lead to accidental button clicks that place unwanted library items. I've tried to use 'The place library' for text work, but the icons are too small to see text.

The column grid is an okay idea but not a high priority for me. I personally found them only useful on complex commercial projects. A house framer can be confused by all the extra lines on a page sometimes misinterpreting them for a dimension leader for example. Global section flags, and global or page definable details would be greatly appreciated.

Kelly

[marty]

My biggest single issue is that a text block and its associated arrow should always remain linked. If the arrow is moved to start from a different end of line the link should remain in place.

I often want to copy a complete group of annotations from one cross section to another. If I select the text tool and group selct all the text the arrows are not selected. I regard this as a bug and niot a feature request.

A lot of the other issues mentioned would be covered by a "match properties" tool which with 2 clicks could change any text item to the correct layer size etc. Having this tool would cover a very large number of user grumbles.

[ktkcad]

Many of the text options should be applicable to more than note text. Dimension line text and line labels should be editable, at least with additional text and basic alignment options.

[Doug Park]

Arrows will change to stay on the text layer now if they are on the same layer as the text.

If you are in leader line mode and group select you get both text and arrows.

[marty]

Hi Doug

I will confess to not adapting to those new text tools like leader and text with arrows - old habits die hard - but I have just done a quick check and could not get the arrow to group select with text with any of the text modes selected.

[arlan tingley]

Just a thought after going through this...post...what if the call outs become automatic?? That is if you make the call out and place it on the floor plan and specify it as a section then a pop up appears and adds a work sheet to make your notes on and then asks which sheet do you what to put this section on in the layout??As well as do you with to save this?? And yes Wendy has nice call outs and they remind me of AUTOCAD files where we wrote scripts and pushed a button then it would go do it. I hate AUTOCAD .ugh!!.... Can't believe i used to teach it...ugh!!! Even DATACAD was better..
Call outs need to be enhanced someway..AND a lot of good thoughts here. I would like to see them filled and when placed in the drawing then it would also place them on the other side of the plan as well. From the first placement...Just a thought..

[marty]

Doug

I just checked again and found that if the entire arrow is included in the selection it works- my test just picked up half the arrow.
Slightly of subject but that reminds of another Datacad feature - one icon for selcting everything contained within a selection and another contained and touched by selection. Small difference but large improvement in functionality.

[Glenn Woodward]

Doug
Slightly of subject but that reminds of another Datacad feature - one icon for selcting everything contained within a selection and another contained and touched by selection. Small difference but large improvement in functionality.

Marty,

Do you mean like the options contained in Preferences...Edit...Marquee Select:

Intersect Rectangle
Contained in Rectangle
Center Inside Rectangle

[marty]

OK OK Ok- - another option I was unaware of - thats exactly what I meant - but much more useful if accesible directly off the toolbar not buried in preferences.

[WendyWelton]

OK OK Ok- - another option I was unaware of - thats exactly what I meant - but much more useful if accesible directly off the toolbar not buried in preferences.

I use these settings all the time, and would dearly love to have them on toolbar buttons. I change these so often that I would like to be able to hotkey them.