Chief Upgrade

[Al Launier]

I'm looking for an objective recommendation from the users of Chief 6.0. I currently have CA 97 and feel pretty comfortable with it. However, I'm thinking about upgrading to Chief 6.0. What are your thoughts? Is the upgrade significantly different to warrant an upgrade from CA 97? Should I wait for CA 7.0? I've heard some interesting complaints about CA 6.0 on this forum and wonder what I'd be getting into. I would think CA 7.0 would solve these problems, giving me a higher level piece of software than CA 97 and one that has had the CA 6.0 bugs taken care of, even though it would probably have its problems to. Appreciate your comments.

Al

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Al Launier
Dolphinall@AOL.com
Bedford, NH

[David J. Potter]

As any software program becomes more complex, it is harder for the authors to predict what combinations end-users make inflict on it and they are no more "super-human" than you or I. Any new software is problematic for it's users to the degree that they are ignorant of it's procedures, nomenclature and features.

That said, Chief Version 5 generated many, many lines of complaints and querys by end-users and still does so.

This forum and the Chief-Users forum on E-Groups exist for the airing of querys, suggestions, news and complaints and as such is productive of communications from people not at their best, under presure to produce, often without fully studying the documentation of the software, a very Human situation.

Chief Version 6 is superior in EVERY way to Version 5 and not just "Bells and Whistles" but real enabeling, empowering, time-saving CAD TOOLS that exist nowhere in Version 5 or in any other CAD package of comparable price and learning curve. I beta tested Version 6 and by doing so have a "leg-up" on other, newer users. I, in helping Becky Deilman prepare the new Manuals' glossary, read (for the first time) the Version 5 manual and all extant documents for Version 6
as well as many hundreds of hours using the Beta, can say that I know what I am talking about.

You can wait for Version 6.5 or 7. The upgrade fees and learning curves, rightfully so, will be higher. I create my Family's survival with Chief. I am a professional. High production and high competance are required in the competitive arena in which I "Play". I want nothing less than the best tools and Chief 97 is not the best, Version 6 IS.

I have less than a crash or two a week, it is not unusual to have none(fewer than Version 5). I draw, at the computer, about 50 to 60 hours per week and have had ZERO barriers drawing what I want, as I want and when I want. If I have a problem, I solve it and "drive on" (my clients don't want to hear about it). Since version 4, Chief has never been a problem to me. I am the source of my problems and I am the solution, you decide what is best for you, I did.



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David J. Potter
Austin, Texas
http://members.spree.com/djpotter

[Chieftain]

Great Soap Box David, and every word is true.

I tend to crash a little more than David, but I do weirder things, and my treatment of my tools isn't always as profesional, so it's to the programs credit that it proforms so well.

What he said is also true about the difference between 6.0 and '97. Its a world of difference, and your in the last one. The program is far more productive, not just because of the new features, but because the things that have always been there are now far more powerful, simple & versatle.

Generally, Ditto what he said.

[This message has been edited by Chieftain (edited 26 November 1999).]

[Al Launier]

Thanks Guys
Dave, you certainly gave me more than I anticipated; I expected more of a cryptic response from the general user's group. Your response was very insightful and your endorsement warrants a commission from ART. And Chieftain, your reinforcement of Dave's response is most reassuring. I'm convinced that CA 6.0 is a much more powerful and productive tool.
My remaining questain now relates to whether I have adequate PC capability to effectively handle CA 6.0. I have a Gateway desktop with Windows 95 and a 17" monitor. It is a G6-300 system with MMX, Pent II 300 Mhz processor, 64 MB RAM, STB 4/8 MEG Video Card, 8.4 GB EIDE Hard Drive, and a Toshiba DVD II CD-ROM Drive.
What do you think - adequate as is, or upgrade to 128 MB RAM, etc.?
Thanks for your response.
Al

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Al Launier
Dolphinall@AOL.com
Bedford, NH

[Michael F. Smith]

Al: I've been running '97 for less than a year & was no way proficient. I don't spend any more than 20 % of my time in design, so I got the 6.0 upgrade and I find it easier, more intuitive and I'm more productive than I was with '97. And I'm way down the learning curve. So, I would think that you would benefit even more than I did, since you are "comfortable" with CA97.

Looking over your list , I'd say that it looks adequate. I run Win98, and I don't know how 6.0 likes Win95. I do know there are initial problems with SOME computers upgrading to Win98, so if you go decide to go to 98, get it operating smooth before you upgrade to CA6.0.
Check out the monitors, we're running (2) 19" that you can pick up for $300 - $350. Not as good as a 21" but way, way less in price.
Go for the ram upgrade.
The above is the humble opinion of a non-power user, so take it for what it's worth.

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mfsmith


[This message has been edited by Michael F. Smith (edited 27 November 1999).]

[Dean]

I believe your system should be adequate for Chief 6.0. I use a Cyrix 333Mhz with 80 Mb RAM. 4Mb video and I am pleased with the results. The major slow down is when you have made a heavy use of CAD patterns. For a Pentium system this would be less noticeable.

The best and cheapest upgrade is always in my book more memory and a stable windows operating system.

[Dermot Dempsey]

Hello,

I won't tell you to upgrade because my opinion doesn't count nearly as much as the user's, but I would like to comment on the bug situation.

With any new version there will always be bugs that get introduced and no matter how hard we try to find them, we won't find them all. This is even after months of testing by us and by the beta testers. Version 6.0 is now very solid with very few remaining bugs. We will have another patch shortly that I hope will fix most of these remaining bugs.

When Version 7.0 is initially released it will probably have more bugs, not less, then the current Version 6.0. This is a direct result of all of the new features that have been added. It should have all of the Version 6.0 bugs fixed but it will have all new bugs that we will have to find and fix.

As far as new hardware is concerned, your existing machine should work just fine with Version 6.0 if it works fine with Chief 97. A faster machine with more memory will run the program better, so if you feel like you are wasting time waiting for the program instead of it waiting for you or that you are not using all of the features because they seem too slow, then that is the time to consider a hardware upgrade.


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Dermot Dempsey
Senior Software Engineer
ART, Inc.

[Geoff Francis]

Al
Your system sounds like a more modern "dinosaur" than mine (more memory and greater speed, same monitor size)and yet mine copes quite well. It is painfully slow using patterns, but you can turn them off for while after they have been completed. That way the regens are not intermible.
So while our systems are no where near optimun, they will operate perfectly acceptably.
I would have to echo thoughts of DJP and others. There is a chasm between Chief97 and Chief6.0 that, having made the leap, you would be highly unlikely to reverse or regret.

[M.A. Winterton]

Add me to the list, CA6 is a big leap forward over CA5, the new copy functions and editing tools are great, and the roof tools are much more quicker and user freindly.

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[David J. Potter]

Thanks Al,

I should add that after all the study and use of Version 6, I am still the "learner". Even having read the V5 and 6 manuals, there are so many features, not all of which I use weekly,that it is easy to forget this or that feature. I relearn them from other users on the forums and from the manual as I need them.
I used V5 and Beta tested V6 on my laptop, a Dell LM 166mmx with 40mb edo ram, it works fine still, we have V6 on a Dell LM P133mmx with 32 mb edo ram and it works fine on that, just slower in rendering patterms as you would expect. I had my son build a computer for me that I use 95% of the time now that is more modern.

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David J. Potter
Austin, Texas

[Chieftain]

Great advice from Dermot on hardware upgrades. It's realy a matter with what you do with it. Patterns are the single thing I wait for the most. Dang it but they are slow and I"m running a PII-400, 128, Viper550 w/16 megs video ream etc. Turning up hardware accelearation when doing a lot of patterns helps a lot, but remember to turn it back down to where you find Chief is stable.

Aso regarding Chief speed I'd like to note that on similar systems, chief 6.0 is FASTER than '97. This applies only to machines with reasonable memory, because the porgram is larger, but on identical systems, chief 6.0 will pull ahead of '97 speed wise.

The exception only applies to 486's just don't cut the mustard any more, but even then it's not realy any slower, just as fast as it never was.

Ok, I'm looseing it here. Just follow David's advice on Chief and Dermot's on hardware and I'll be quiet.

[Al Launier]

Thanks to everyone for their time and valued inputs. I will pursue the Chief 6 and may very well upgrade from 64 MB RAM to 128 MB. Nice to have a responsive source to refer to.

Al

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Al Launier
Dolphinall@AOL.com
Bedford, NH