Ahoy! Roof Experts

[ChiefChris]

louis - the same "development" that the house with the $2500 place-mats is they are digging out a foundation for a home about the same size...I think it's around 35-40,000..and as well, it's only 2 people.

I will be working on a client home design soon - they are purchasing 3 lots so they can fit their 25,000sq ft home in the center...and again, it's only 2 of them. I just dont understand why someone would do that...

But, if they want to pay me to draw it...that's fine with me...

[louis]

Well, if they come to us to do the plan I will send them to you. We are refusing to do projects like that.

...and it's not because we are not capable of doing the design.

[George Godwin]

I think it's around 35-40,000..and as well, it's only 2 people.

That's not including staff to look after it, I presume.

[ChiefChris]

That's not including staff to look after it, I presume.

Of course not....

Not sure what these new 'homeowners' do for a living, but the couple that we're building this garage for actually build, own, and manage hospitals across the country. She is the private legal council for the development of each hospital and he is the management (quite a team) And he owns and races a couple of formula one cars....

sad.

Louis - I am sure you can handle it...I'm not too particularly interested in that type of clientel either as they just keep adding and adding and adding....it makes the process pretty frustrating. And for those types of clients, it's much better to be able to present "in person".....

Paul...I think we're off topic here...did you ever get anything resolved with that roof?

[pktraylor]

Hello Chris!


I also got wrapped up in the follow-on to my post. Some good insight.

At this point I have given the client three options and two that will not work for his hip type roof. Would you believe that he called last night with another option that His Brother-in-law came up with.

No, not yet. But I am going to see this through, I think.


Paul

[louis]

Paul,

It's time for a new client!

Do you have money in this job to spend hours on one simple roof?

I hope you do!

What's he going to be like on everything else?

[pktraylor]

Hi Louis!


I keep a time log on all plans a give each client an update of the charges. He knows what they are at this time.

Thank heavens all the rest of the design he likes. I have already finished the construction drawings but will need to go back and modify when the roof design has be selected. Yes I know, a lot of rework.

I can't wait to see his Brother-in-laws idea!


Paul

[ChiefChris]

in-laws are always fun....they always seem to know better

[Allen42acj]

When people/friends,family show up on my jobs while building.I tell them any suggestions, they are doing the work or paying for it themselves..
Keeps their mouths shut most of the time..

[Curtis Johnson]

George:

In your post #56 you state "There is no heat loss in the winter nor heat gain in the summer with a Sun Tube ...". I didn't realize someone had invented the perfect energy efficient material or combination of materials yet. I looked at your links and I did see some of the typical manufacturer hype on some of the products but .... I didn't see anything that tells me someone makes a sun pipe/tube/etc. that has perfect energy performance! Yes, they are a great way to bring more light into a home if that is what our customers want. Depending on the area and the how well the installation was done, they do increase the potential for a future roof leak.

I suspect you didn't mean exactly what you stated. I don't think builders, designers, architects, etc. should be drawn into choosing one product over another by advertising claims made by manufacturers without a thorough investigation into the products being considered.

[kernsdan]

I think you should feel lucky you have these kind of customers. Most of the time you can pick out the ones that will try to cheat you by pricing things as you go and keeping everything in writing. Hopefully they will weed themselves out. Most of these people have so **** much money they dont really care what you charge them. Just as long as they trust you and you are providing the services they want. I have a customer who calls me all day long and on the weekends. Do I care?? It does get old. But, I know he is willing to pay the price to get what he wants. He would rather call me and tell me his ideas then to write them down and tell me on Monday. This is his personality and he is willing to pay for great service. He is single, never married, no kids and loves his dog. I estimate he makes approx. $60,000 per month, based on our conversations, just in his investments in his oil company. He has 3 huge condos in Telluride Colo. and lots of land. I keep asking him to adopt me. I have been in business for 26 years. It took me a while to figure out that if you dont ask, you dont get. In other words, in some situations you can double your normal pricing and still get the job. Not always, But with these type of people there is a greater possiblity. Then these people refer you to their friends and on it goes. I learned to make more money, you have to charge more money. Have you ever been so busy you bid a job really high and still got even though you weren't trying? Sooooooo, to make more money, you have to charge more money. So enjoy those customers when you can.

[George Godwin]

"There is no heat loss in the winter nor heat gain in the summer with a Sun Tube.".

First a Disclaimer: I do not own shares in any Sun Tube company and I am not an energy expert nor an energy engineer. Nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night for the free morning donuts and coffee.

Some Sun Tube manufacturers make a claim that their products are largely neutral in terms of energy gain or loss in winter and summer while others make statements along that line when comparing them to regular skylights that have a shaft going up to the roof. Sun Tubes appear to be designed to avoid air leakage at the ceiling and at the roof and insulation can be used around the pipe in the attic. To bring light into a home does have some risks related to poor installation be it a window or a sun tube.

My comments were directed at comparing the Sun Tube to a Belvedere Skylight which would have the worst energy performance of the three options. I commented on this element in Chris' images due to the fact that we have a large builder in our area offering a Belvedere skylight in one of their lakeside models which is why I commented in the first place.

I don't think much of the Belvedere option where it creates a wide shaft from the roof into the home. If one wants the architectural feature of the roof adornment which does have it charm, then one can install it on the roof and then use a Sun Tube to bring light into the home.

Of course, the other option is to have dark spaces in the home and use electric lights to light them in the daytime. I personally dislike any space where an electric light is required in the daytime and so I try to eliminate that darkness.

[Curtis Johnson]

George: I should have worded my post a little differently - my intent was to point out that products are often advertised in ways that make them sound quite attractive when in fact they may only perform at a much lower level. I did enjoy reading about the English sun pipe with a 25 year warranty against manufacturing defects. That is pretty good in this day (however, I wonder what the fine print says). I really enjoy your posts and your comments - keep up the good work in providing your knowledge and experience to us Chiefers. By the way, I really like the way Canada rates their windows and doors - I guess I am not really convinced that our Energy Star program is on the same level of rating overall performance as yours.

[George Godwin]

Curtis, - I see a trade-off in the energy conservation perspective. Bringing light into a dark area of the house to avoid using electric lights in the daytime is a positive energy strategy to be counter-balanced with the need to ensure a quality of installation at the ceiling and the roof. I am aware of a local developer/builder who appeared to be so conscious of penetrating the vapour barrier in the ceiling of a bungalow that he did not put ceiling fixtures in rooms he could get away with under the Code. When people moved into one of his homes, they had to buy and plug in lamps to light certain rooms where they would normally have expected a ceiling fixture. Of course, his real reason may have been to simply save a buck.

[Curtis Johnson]

Sounds like case of paranoia on that customer's part. I have one that has negative feelings about canned ceiling lights and insulating around them. Granted, there can be issues with improperly installed canned lights and in some situations, canned lights might not be a good idea for other reasons. These are those little hurdles we have to jump over in the building business.