Garage

[wrighthandyman]

This doesn't have anything to do about CA but I thought I would pick the minds of you all. I'm wanting to know some info on garage footing. I'm going to build my basement then backfill. Then I'm going to do the garage but I'm having some cunfusion. I'm doing ICF for the whole house and garage. The question that I have is do I have to put the footing 36" below grade then set the ICF on it and just have the wall below or do I put it on a stem wall.

[Tim O'Donnell]

your local codes will dictate the footing depth and design...they need to below the maximum frost in your area ...a general rule of thumb is 1/3 of it below the frost line to resist frost heaving...but soil conditions for your lot /area also are considerations...you do not want your garage to move...

here we go 6' down...

[Curtis Johnson]

ICFs go right to the footing - they are the foundation wall (or stem wall) and in our area, most homeowners take them all the way to the roof for the garage as well as the walls of the home (although a few do the garage with framing). The builders who prefer building with ICF are usually successful in convincing the home owner that it is easier and about the same price to just do everything with ICF rather than mixing building systems. A couple of things to remember: 1. You want to make sure you specify proper compaction if the garage footings will be added after backfilling the basement - and you should have some rebar exiting the basement foundation where the garage foundation will tie in (the outside foam should be removed at these locations as well). 2. Don't forget to allow extra depth (frost) for the slope of the garage slab to the large door openings. I do a coursing chart in the ICF plans I do that pretty well shows the builder where everything goes - including frost footing for a walkout basement plan. I try to pre-figure all the coursing so the builder doesn't have to do any horizontal cuts on the top course to get the correct wall height. As Tim said, make sure you understand your local code requirements so you can get your design and all your elevations correct the first time around.

[arlan tingley]

Look in the internation residential code book from page 69 to 93 and some of that refers to the drainage as well around the footing. This is the 2006 ICR for 1 and 2 family dwellings.
A design place....ARLAN

[arlan tingley]

ok back again,
On the ICF walls and footing. The charts on page 89 t0 91 will give you all the info on back fill walls as well as stem walls, the drainage, types of insulation you need and discusses the types of walls with specifics. 3 types of insulated concrete footings and walls can have 2 different kinds of problems. A moisture barrier and an insulation barrier for the concrete wall or footing or both. 2006 ICR is the book you will need if want it right. Loal codes will add a varition to it but not much unless there is a restriction on area. Yes all foundations need to be below the frost line if there is a footing and stem wall. That does not apply to turn down slabs for some garages or flat slabbs.
Again you can have ICF'S for all contrete as well or masonary bloock.
the key is making sure the dampproofing and water proofing is taking care of.
Back filled walls need to have the strength to resit lateral instability or presure from the foundation. One of the things that help prevent that is drainage.
Enough said. You guys got it covered.
A

[slatta]

another thing is if you backfill your basement wall before you install and nail off the floor you are potentially in trouble if your basement wall was designed as a basement wall instead of a retaining wall, i note that floor framing and nailing must be completed prior to backfilling basements

the difference is a basement wall is a basement wall not a cantilevered retaining wall, it is basically not designed to hold the backfill with out the floor installed.

I am sure it is done

[Curtis Johnson]

Specifying that reinforcement be placed on the inboard (tension) side of the wall (ICF core) also can be helpful in developing strength to minimize deflection due to backfill loads. In addition to installing the floor system, an engineer I worked with on a commercial project specified that the inboard side foam be removed where the basement slab connected to the outside ICF foundation walls. I like to see the walls set at least 7 days before backfilling (which is usually the case - if not more time). I wonder how they bend all those corners with the Extreme Makeover program? Bottom line on the ICFs is know the technical specifications of the product you are working with and your local codes as well.

[slatta]

we have tried to keep all reinforcing designs in the center to elim and form packer trying to figure out which is the tension side!

[wrighthandyman]

Thanks for all the input I will be reinforcing the walls with more horizontal and vertical rebar due to the hillside of the house so it will be ok. I can't put the floor in before I poor the basement slab so I will put the floor then back fill then put the main floor up. My main floor is thinner than the basement because I'm not using joist hangers I'm resting on the basement wall then build the floor around it. I've done all the research like you suggested on the frostline and all others and I'm ok. I do have one more question for now. On my drain tile should I tie the tile from the house and the garage together or can I run it seperate. Thanks again.

[kmapro]

The ICF blocks I use do not specify the location of the rebar - other than 2' off the slab and then every 4 feet from there.

The sales guy came out and helped me with my first house. The way he showed me was to just place the rebar in the walls..straddle the vertival rebar.

My county requires an engineered letter for any cocncrte wall over 8'

[James Eggert]

It's difficult for me to respond without going off on someone that gets into this situation. Being involved with ICFs since 96, and doing training and teaching and lecturing and semiars for HomeBuilder Associations, manufacturers, the NAHB class, etc., etc in order to preserve the proper use of ICFs, IMMATERIAL OF WHICH BRAND, I am still dismayed at the fact that someone inexperienced can buy a product which requires more than just general DIY knowledge to use properly. I will not address the garage footing next to the deeper basement wall issue because that is typical everyday construction techniques WHICH SHOULD BE KNOWN BY THE ACTUAL INSTALLER. Having to ask about such a common foundation installation tells me that there will be problems with the ICF installation. This is why we fight so hard to keep the products in the hands of people who are somewhat adept at construction, ASSUMING they receive some technical support from the block supplier. Receiving technical support would have answered these simple questions for the user who can then hopefully determine how best to proceed!!
I'm going to also take a guess here and assume that Wright is buying a knockdown block style because of the "alleged" savings! The issue isn't knockdown versus already manufactured complete in the blowing plant. It's a simple analogy of not using a product for the first time which requires an inordinate amount of user expertise to control. There are great site assembled blocks out there,,,,and there are great delivered to site ready to go blocks also.

Oh, and by the way, did anyone else catch that the slab cannot be poured so they will wait, then pour the slab, then.....install the framed floor which is required to complete the structural envelope typically BEFORE backfilling. At least before backfilling to the top. I think I interpret from the poster that they will pour the slab before backfilling and that is very good...what I wonder is who explained the necessary requirements for the footing dowels to him so that there may be an option of backfilling before the slab(by an experienced installer/contractor)?

Technical help can be anything from onsite training to print matter, both still requiring vocal explanations of anything not understood or requiring extra caution!!

Frustrating, to say the least!!!!!!

[wrighthandyman]

Well it's buttheads like you that make small contractors like myself want to expand and do more work to remove people like you from the industry. I guess you came out of your mother knowing everyting! How do you think people learn, by asking questions and learing. I don't know everything and I will never know everyting. Maybe you should get out of the business since you know everything. I've done plenty of room additions, garages, and other jobs but this will be my own home so that is why I'm trying it. I have my foundations done so I'm trying to learn as much as I can and thanks to the other very HELPFULL people I have learned a lot. I might totaly screw my house up and have to build it again but it's my house and I'm willing to take that chance to not have to pay a smuge person like yourself to do it for me. Thanks for your insults and have a nice day!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

[James Eggert]

Actually, if you took the time to read what I wrote and thought about it, you will see that I was not selectively picking on you, but rather the scenario you are now in where ANOTHER ICF block mfg has left someone hanging so that when, NOT IF, you have problems which you are not able to interpret, handle or fix, we in the industry suffer from the fallout,

I did not say don't do ICFs because you can't; I said you need help based on your questions so that you don't have issues. You say you have done additions and garages, and that may be so, but you did ask a simple foundation question as regarding a stepped foundation which I then assumed meant limited experience with concrete. That is the basis of my response, not your capability, but your enthusiasm jumping into the ICF world is laudable and I agree you need to ask questions. However, I stand by my comments as to ALL MANUFACTURERS should provide technical support.

If you wish to learn more about ICFs try these sites...

www.icfweb.com
www.concrete-home.com
www.buildingsystems.com
www.portcement.org

After you check these for info, I have more....if you really want to learn :-)

[rgwhite]

I just thought I would throw in my two cents in. I have found lots of carpenter ants living in the insulation (a couple of years after the house was built) if the insulation goes below the soil. Also termites have been found tunneling under the stucco in the insulation if this goes below grade. Be careful with this detail.

[James Eggert]

rg
valid observations. In fact, the Southern Building Code has restrictions bordering on a complete ban on how to use eps foam below grade.
Manufacturers of support products have developed products to use in different situations, such as SS mesh barriers, termite/ant guards, etc. in order to use ICFs in these areas!