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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Puyallup, WA
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    114
    If you don't lredy have a copy of the washington state energy code try this link:

    http://www.leg.wa.gov/wac/index.cfm?...estTimeout=500

    You will need to determine which climate zone your project is in, one or two. There is a list of which counties are in whichhh zones, but basically it is East side or West side.

    If you are using the perscriptive approach, the "R" and/or "U" values are listed for walls, floor, roofs, etc. in the code. Performance is a bit more difficult but various "R' and "U" values are listed in the book. You will need to show that the proposed overall building envelope calcs at least the same if not better than the target envelope.

    You should note that the WSEC is divided into residential in the first part and non-residential in the last part.

    Dave

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Fresno, CA
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    1,054
    Alex!
    Don't forget there are changes comming in January 2006 again for California on Title 24.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    358
    Alex
    I know we're sort of getting away from the enegy thing a little, but I was asking about CA fees on another forum where I learned about your Proposition 13 and some of the problems thay are trying to "fee" around in order to fund the state and minicipal goverment. The inclusion of decent energy requirements, whether per code or mandate, is a good thing, if it's applied fairly and practically. I posted the following as that thread continues about fees and a proposed development in Livermore, CA but it's only my opinion....
    And I thought after you guys dropped Ebonics that the educational system was normal....

    Dick
    "building permit fees are estimated to average $160,000 per house, and other fees tacked on are going to double that."
    This isn't even funny anymore! Why don't you just close up all the businesses that pay minimum wage and send all the peope to another state along with the fast food business, warehouse workers, etc. etc?? Who the **** can afford to live there if the current regulations(?) that are in place in order to fix the past fiscal mismanagement are exemplified to such an extreme??

    This pension thing is all out of touch in many places where everyone has their hand out but no one takes resposibility for their own future by saving and planning! Sorry, just my 2 cents because the feds already throw enough away.

    Fees like this are an affront to any normal person trying to have the american dream...own your own home! Sure, they can always move to another state if you can't pay the freight, but basically it's just a screwing under the guise of following the laws that are in place, by circumventing them adding another fee(tax) someplace else! Give me the money so I can give it to someone else! You can call it school fees, impact fees, water protection fees, or whatever you want.....It's still a tax used to try and fix something else. $160k permit fees????? This is a starter home for people in many areas of the country, of course we're excluding wine pinky land! Fees for schools????There are national reports from the NAHB reviewing all the tax ramifications around the country showing that more houses do not OVERBURDEN the existing school systems, but rather provide more tax dollar extras to the coffers than student increases! In other words, more income versus expenditure based on number of students. They must have left CA out of these research efforts!

    I know we can all talk about how unfair we think it is compared to what we have....but it's almost like another country, isn't it? I feel so sad for you who have to survive in that fiscal debauchery! What a classic example of "I got mine!"
    __________________
    Take Care

    Jim

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    Imperial, Missouri 63052
    Posts
    256
    I farm this work out. For $200.00 it's not worth it for me to do them. Frank R Iannucci does mine. San Jose/Campbell Area (408) 866-1620. Tell him Rick sent you.
    Rick J. Lee
    RJL Design
    www.RJL-Design.com
    Thor2002@MSN.com



  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    257
    I farm this work out. For $200.00 it's not worth it for me to do them.
    Sounds like by the time you farm it out the design is done. So the energy eval. just verifies the house meets some minimal standard.

    Too late to make energy a factor in the design process.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    2
    One of the most important things designers can do is to include a location for the air handling unit and the subsequent return air filter grille. Almost every house built has a return air grille that is too small. The location of the grille is usually left up to the HVAC guy working with the framer to find a location that will work, and sometimes that means the available area is limited and they install a return air grille that is even smaller than they intended, but is all that will fit given the framing conditions. Designers need to work with whomever they have access to for sizing of HVAC systems and design into the plan the equipment location, including return air filter grilles.

  7. #37
    FWD is offline Registered User Promoted
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    Jun 2005
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    San Diego
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    Heres one way around permit fees!



    D.C. Battling Boom in Illegal Work on Homes

    By Yolanda Woodlee, Washington Post Staff Writer

    The District's skyrocketing real estate prices have fueled an increase in illegal construction as property owners across the city are building and renovating homes without obtaining the required permits, according to D.C. officials and a review of city records.


    Using tips largely supplied by neighbors turning in neighbors, the D.C. Department of Consumer and Regulatory Affairs issued more than 1,400 stop-work orders for illegal construction during a recent 17-month period and has fined the violators nearly $1 million.



    By comparison, Montgomery and Fairfax counties each issue fewer than 50 stop-work orders a year, officials said. Prince George's County officials said they issued about 135 such orders last year.

    Many of the District's violators are homeowners building additions because they cannot afford to move to more spacious homes, while others are investors renovating properties in the hopes of selling them at a substantial profit, city officials and community activists say. The number of stop-work orders also reflects an aggressive crackdown by the D.C. regulatory agency, which once had a reputation for slipshod enforcement of building codes.

    Patrick Canavan, the agency's new director, noted that the permit process is critical because it triggers inspections that show whether buildings meet safety standards and because improvements filed on the permits help determine property tax assessments.

    Canavan said the city will not tolerate property owners and contractors who flagrantly violate building codes. "When we catch you . . . we're going to nail you," he said.

    A review of 300 stop-work orders citywide showed such violations as hanging drywall before the city has inspected electrical and plumbing work, and renovating kitchens and bathrooms without building permits. Officials said other cases involve property owners who obtain permits for small projects such as decks but instead build additions, and contractors constructing houses without proper approvals.

    The inspectors rely mostly on complaints from residents about neighbors violating building or zoning laws. For most construction projects, permits must be posted at the site, and inspectors place the bright red stop-work orders on properties where approvals have not been obtained.

    Deanwood, a working-class neighborhood in the far eastern corner of the city, has become a hotbed for property owners and builders working without permits. D.C. Council member Vincent C. Gray (D-Ward 7), who represents Deanwood, said he is concerned that cheap properties east of the Anacostia River, including some that are vacant or abandoned, foster illegal construction because the profit margin is greater, even when the work is shoddy.

    John Frye, a community activist, frequently cruises Deanwood, looking for illegal construction. "They're disrespecting the law," Frye said of some builders. "They're working with the stop-work orders posted where you can see them."

    Frye calls the city from his cell phone when he runs across oddities, such as the giant hole he spotted in the 1000 block of 45th Street NE. Someone had demolished a house, leaving a two-story-high deck on stilts. Delores Jones, who lives a couple of doors from the property, said a backhoe had been "digging evenings and nights."

    City building records show inspectors issued four stop-work orders to the property owner, Duane McKinney, and fined him $3,000. McKinney, head of the McKinney Construction Co., declined to discuss the citations.

    Inspectors can issue fines ranging from $500 to $4,000 for repeated violations.

    Frye and other residents also alerted city officials to the practices of Dixon A. Oladele, a builder arrested in January on 296 charges of erecting a building without a permit. Oladele had received stop-work orders at six properties over four years and had paid the city more than $200,000 in fines in connection with 39 citations.

    Oladele acknowledged in a recent interview that he started several projects before his building permit applications were approved. "One of my problems is impatience," he said.

    Permits generally are needed for projects ranging from putting up a fence or backyard shed to expanding a room. Property owners who are unsure whether they need a permit should call the regulatory agency or visit its Web site, http://dcra.dc.gov , before beginning a project, agency officials said.

    Officials said permits can be obtained in a day for such projects as decks and in a month for major renovations. But some residents and contractors complain of lengthy waits for officials to review plans, issue permits and respond to requests for inspections. Some people hire "expeditors" who can help speed the process.

    Edmund L. Peters, a permit expeditor, said it can take up to six months for homeowners and builders to get a building permit for a new house.

    "The reason why people don't get permits is because the DCRA makes it very difficult for people to get them," Peters said.

    Frank Economides, a Northwest homeowner charged with failing to obtain valid permits, contends that the regulatory agency mishandled his case.

    Economides and his wife had lived in the affluent Wesley Heights neighborhood in Northwest for 12 years when they decided to expand their 5,000-square-foot home by adding guest quarters, a family room, an office and a wine cellar. He obtained a permit for the addition in 2002. But when the work began, he said, a bulldozer slid into his house on Dexter Terrace NW and damaged it beyond repair. He demolished the structure and began building a 9,000-square-foot home.

    City records show Economides received two building permits after he demolished his house. But city officials said those permits were issued in error because Economides did not first obtain a valid demolition permit. Economides, a city developer for 20 years, has been charged with 1,480 misdemeanors -- two violations for each day the city said he lacked the proper approvals.

    One neighbor who complained about the size of Economides's house and brick retaining wall reviewed city records on the project and noticed what appeared to be a demolition permit that had been altered. The lot and square number identified a different property, and the permit number matched one issued months earlier for the demolition of a house on Chain Bridge Road. The city inspector general's office is investigating the altered permit.

    Economides said he has done nothing wrong and called the city's enforcement process "absurd." He said he used a permit expediting service, which he would not identify, to obtain the demolition permit and never examined it.

    "It's ridiculous to think we were trying to go through the back door," he said. He is scheduled for a jury trial Aug. 9 and said his family is eager to move into the new home, which was completed this month.

    In recent months, the city has taken steps to strengthen the regulatory agency's enforcement powers. The agency, which has 50 inspectors and plans to hire 10 more, has created an Illegal Construction Unit, a team of inspectors whose shifts include nights and weekends to catch violators working at odd hours. In addition, the D.C. Council has given preliminary approval to legislation that would increase fines from $300 to $2,000 per violation and raise the maximum jail time from 10 to 90 days.

    Over the past six months, six people working on projects in the Capitol Hill, Shaw or Deanwood neighborhoods have been arrested, primarily on charges of removing stop-work orders and continuing construction.

    Jefferey Keil, a longtime contractor in the District, was arrested in March and accused of building in Northwest without a permit, violating a stop-work order and removing the order. Keil's attorney, Richard Bianco, said that his client was wrongfully arrested and that a permit had been obtained a week earlier.

    "How can you arrest somebody for working pursuant to a permit that DCRA issued?" Bianco asked.

    Cyrus C. Blackmon and his wife, Katarina Varani, were arrested at their Capitol Hill home in April and charged with building without a permit, removing stop-work orders and entering a property in violation of a stop-work order. Records show that inspectors had posted four stop-work orders at the couple's home and that the signs were ripped down, one of them less than an hour after it was put up.

    The couple declined to be interviewed but denied wrongdoing in an appeal to the city's Office of Administrative Hearings, which dismissed some of their fines. Documents filed with the city show they had complained that their contractor failed to obtain permits. The couple has a court hearing scheduled for next month in the criminal case.

    One report of illegal construction activity can quickly lead to other violators being cited.

    Alerted by a neighbor, the agency's inspection unit recently discovered that Oladele had been constructing a four-story, multiunit building at 723 Morton St. NW since 2003 without a building permit. Inspectors immediately posted a stop-work order.

    Then they noticed that a homeowner across the street was renovating his house without permits. They halted that work, too. D.C. police officer Kevin E. Brittingham, the property owner, has received $10,000 in fines and penalties. He said he is appealing the fines because he didn't know he needed a permit to remodel his kitchen and replace windows.

    "I know now," he said.

    Staff researcher Bobbye Pratt contributed to this report.

    Last edited by FWD; 06-27-2005 at 07:43 PM.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    Imperial, Missouri 63052
    Posts
    256
    The design IS done by the time Frank gets to work on it. Besides, San Jose, California is what I call a place without weather. It is without a doubt the mildest climate I have ever been in. It really is place absent of weather.

    So these Title-24 guys live and breath the changes and buy the software. That's their job and that all they do. So you can call them and they will know the answer. They also do commercial in regards to switching the flourescent lighting, mechanical and anything in the building that ***** energy.
    Rick J. Lee
    RJL Design
    www.RJL-Design.com
    Thor2002@MSN.com



  9. #39
    FWD is offline Registered User Promoted
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    San Diego
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    110
    Rick,

    Not to speak for Ta but I think that's what he means. It's an after the fact evaluation.
    I live in San Diego where the weather is supposed to be the best in the nation. But it gets cold at night in winter sometimes down to 30's.

    Dan

  10. #40
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    257
    Not to speak for Ta but I think that's what he means. It's an after the fact evaluation.
    Well said. Once everthing is already done, whats the point? It's too late in the design process.

    Outsourcing energy analysis is the same as outsourcing drafting. Yeah you can do it, but that is where the real design work happens. Just like sketches don't make construction drawings; energy "sketches", do not make energy efficiency either (though they may satisfy status quo code reqs).

    If you are just "sketching" the energy deisgn (hmmm. R-19 batt here, generic low-e windows there), you really don't know what the implications to whole house energy efficiency are, or if you are properly allocating money (always limited) to the right stratigies.
    Last edited by taharvey; 06-29-2005 at 11:40 AM.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    Imperial, Missouri 63052
    Posts
    256
    "The coldest Winter I have ever felt was a Summer in San Francisco!"

    Mark Twain
    Rick J. Lee
    RJL Design
    www.RJL-Design.com
    Thor2002@MSN.com



  12. #42
    FWD is offline Registered User Promoted
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    San Diego
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    There is weather in coastal California!

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    BerkeleyCA/CambridgeMA
    Posts
    266
    One of the best parts about designing in California is that we have so many different climates and when you design to work with the climate, rather than ignore or overpower it, you begin to appreciate the wisdom of historic vernacular design.

    Until really cheap energy and AC became available after WW2, design styles were more regional because they had to respond to what the weather gave them. Today (and I hope not much longer), you see the same tract design in Boise and Bakersfield and Mobile.... design driven by market research and least first cost.

    I design very different houses for the California Sierras than I do for Sacramento or San Francisco primarily because of climatic differences. I hope to see more of this type of climate responsive design when the 2005 Energy Standards kick in in CA because it will be easier to convince a client that a 4' overhang that shaves 2 tons of AC off a house in Fresno is worth the first cost vs. paying the hefty surcharge on afternoon peak electricity usage forever after.

    In CA, the major utilities have already started changing out residential electric meters to "time of use" units... we'll pay more at peak times than we do at 2AM. Commercial customers have been paying on time of use consumption for many years already, but as this expands into the residential market I trust we will see a SERIOUS interest in efficient envelope design... and by this I mean just packing insulation and using LowE^2 glazing won't cut it ... building orientation, massing and form, proportion, integrated hydronic systems, etc. will become much more common in our work ... because it will finally show a bottom line impact.

    Many of us working in the energy evaluation business anticipate that the states working solely within the limitations of the Model Energy Code, and the MEC itself, will have to move in the direction of the California performance based energy code if our "experiment" with Time Dependent Valuation of energy pricing changes use patterns and, subsequently, design priorities like we anticipate.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Carlisle, PA
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    1,697
    Originally posted by Alex-Berkeley
    Today (and I hope not much longer), you see the same tract design in Boise and Bakersfield and Mobile.... design driven by market research and least first cost.

    <snip>

    Many of us working in the energy evaluation business anticipate that the states working solely within the limitations of the Model Energy Code, and the MEC itself, will have to move in the direction of the California performance based energy code if our "experiment" with Time Dependent Valuation of energy pricing changes use patterns and, subsequently, design priorities like we anticipate.
    I confess I don't understand that last sentence. What does it mean? I have to redesign and re-optimize the house for energy use every time I change its orientation on a lot in a subdivision?

    Testing buildings and duct work for leakage I understand.

    "Time Dependent Valuation of energy pricing changes use patterns and, subsequently, design priorities" is the confusing part. Are you talking about time of day electricity pricing? Are you planning to predict what that will be as a time series 50 years into the future inorder to optimize the life energy cost of a dwelling?

    What are you using as an economic model to justify higher initial cost than the MEC would cause? What is the payback time frame, what interest rate are you assuming (and why?)?

    There would seem to be a lot of variables in this process that are pure guess work. Much of the MEC is based on reasonable return on investment. What is what you propose based on?

    Fitch

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
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    6,414
    a lot of energy could be saved, simply if so many did not think they needed a 10,000 sf 'cottage' w/10-12' ceilings....

    up here we call it 'off-peak' rates and have used it for decades...my own home and shop uses it at $0.0275/kwh...the basis is very simple...the generation capacity is a known value...this is generated no matter what...so the coop sells this 'excess' capacity at a lower rate with the provision that they can control it as the peak is reached...they use a ripple control to turn off the power to devices on this to stay within their generating capacity. For heating, that means you also need to have an alternative system to pick up the slack...gas..wood...heated slab(this acts as a heat sink already heated by the electric)...just not electric...at present this is about 300 hrs a year..usually not more than a few hours at a time when it is very cold (-10 or less)...all those cars plugged in really adds up

    properly set up the systems switch seamlessly and you do not even notice that it is being controlled...last winter I spent less that $2 a day for heat (this is in northern MN, farther north than most Canadians live )

    I also have a heat pump that supplies me with conditioned air at those same rates in the summer.
    Last edited by Tim O'Donnell; 07-01-2005 at 06:56 AM.

 

 

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