Pay Scale

[Draft007]

I know this may be a sensitive subject to some...but being fairly new to drafting and design I'm curious to find out what people are getting paid, useing Chief...of course. I know about the range of what one would charge a client...$50-$80 an hr. I'm making less than 1/3 of that and again, I'm fairly new and I like what I do very much. I would love to hear from as many people as possible, pay & job title and how long it took you to get there...Thanks for everyones help, this site has helped me in so many ways!

Cheers

[HumbleChief]

I think the subject might be sensitive because the rules and rates are so hard to quantify and reflect the years of experieince and worth a person puts on their time.

We are mainly remodelers and are just starting our design business in earnest. We charge $65 and hour only because our company needs that much to cover overhead and expenses and generate a profit.

Notice I used the term 'our company'. After many years of thinking I was the company and basing 'my' wages on that misconception I have matured as has the company to view things through much different eyes.

Of course I started out buildng @ $8 an hour but that was 35 years ago. If you are just starting out, in any aspect just make sure you are getting enough to survive and pay the bills.

As your business matures IT will require you charge more to cover the BUSINESS expenses not your own.

Again Ithink the key is to begin thinking about your business as needing x amount of dollars not YOU, it will make all your negotiations and expense, hourly rates more accurate and easier to live with.

Larry

[quickdraw]

I charge $45.00 an hour which is the going rate here for a designer/drafter although some charge less and a few charge more. Architects in my area charge $150.00 an hour. Engineers $85.00. I prefer to charge a percentage (2 to 3%) of const. costs. Rates will vary widely depending on where you are and how much work there is.

However, because I am new to CA there has been a lot of time I couldn't bill for. So I am actually making about $15.00 to $25.00 an hour. Thats getting better all the time though.

I expect soon to be proficient enough on Chief to actually bill for most of the hours I work. Oh what a happy day that will be!

[lbuttery]

It depends if you are in an urban or rural location.

Here in the DC metro area I am charging 2-3% of project for remodeling and/or $50/hr as needed. The $50 is mid-range
for this area (leaning towards low) with more experience the $50 has plenty of room to grow. The 2-3% won't grow unless I become licensed and can take more of the responsibility for structure or design.

Lew

[Allen42acj]

I thought most did it by the sq. ft.
Unless you sell stock plans.I took advice from someone here or the other forum,to sell a set cheap to get started.
Sold my first house and will be the framer on it also.I got $400.oo .28'x34' with a 24'x24' familly/garage under.It was one I was doing to learn on.
It is a start.Helps to know a few builders to.
Allen C.

[Draw4Food]

I am also very curious to see what others are charging. I charge .38 per foot for a new plan, and half that if I have drawn it for that contractor before, and it has a few changes and a new plot plan. That translates to around $800-1000 and $400-500 for the size of homes I am doing. That is a no-frills plan; 12 copies on arch-c paper including site, foundation plan, floor plan, all elevations, and a simple section showing typical construction materials. I also do the Rescheck energy compliance. No electrical, other than smokes, cable and TV. No cabinet elevations, no detailed framing diagrams, etc. I don't meet with homeowners, just the builder.

I think I am a bit low, even for this area. I called around, and it seems like the going rate for "wholesale" plans is $.50. I don't do enough "retail" plans to know what to charge, but it would be a lot higher. I am in SW Idaho by the way. (lucky me)

I am intruiged by the "remote" design concept. If anyone who does this kind of work has any input on the subject, I would appreciate it.

Allan

[Donald Freix]

If you are simply doing the drafting of other peoples ideas under their direct supervision, that would garner one rate. If you are doing the, designing," for the project at hand, you are assuming much greater responsibility and liability and you should be factoring your risks along with the value of your knowledge and talents. Another factor with, "designing," is state licensing and and educational degree certification to even legally engage in design work. Formulating a concept to describe accurately what a client is after, is something that I think deserves payment at a much higher rate than simple drawing.

Also, consider retaining the rights to the concepts and to any drawing work you do, and especially to be able to own and use any 3D work in your future advertising. Put it in your contract. Clearly explain in your contract what you will be doing for your client.

As you gain experience, offer a fixed price or a price range, "by the project," cost estimate and write your contracts requiring a substantial up-front down payment, with progress payments and reciept of the total amount due upon delivery of the plans. Hourly rates become less of an obsticle to doing business. It is easier to figure a higher rate for your work and to help potential clients to, "not," get hung up on what hourly rate you are charging or you feel you deserve. I don't know of any way to put that experience in a recommended dollar per hour figure for you.

Don

[kanon]

I agree with Don...I charge based on the value of the project. Most of my jobs are remodeling/additions and I will charge $1,000 for something simple and up for more complexity.

[alobartn]

Don put it very succintly. I'd add that there are enormous parameters regarding that topic. Some on this forum draft, some provide only conceptual or schematic design. Some create CDs, some are architects, others are builders or have design/build firms; I could go on. . . .

It seems that one is paid commensurately by many factors, just two of which I'll name.

Drafting: It's a skill one develops over time, often with training, but does not necessarily involve creativity in design. It may, but doesn't always. I see these as necessary, helpful, often invaluable people since they enable designers to work without getting bogged down in details, thus increasing fiduciary efficiency. The best can contribute practical ideas and will make sure your crazy idea is buildable. It's important to recognize that it's a skill, not necessarily a talent.

Design: Can be purely creative, and may include those who think outside the box. The best (hopefully) will be paid more than the not-so-creative (this isn't always the case). It's both a skill and a talent, and in a perfect world is rewarded accordingly.

I see drafting and design as fitting somewhere in between those parameters. Personally, I design and draft, with drafting being the necessary outcome of my design. But it's the design where I feel the joy.

Having been accused of obsessive perfectionism, which I categorically deny (what perfectionist wouldn't?), I find drafting both tedious and delightful. Tedious in that it often feels interminable; I constantly panic that there's something the builder could misinterpret. And delightful because the finished product is a source of pride, having been a remodeler and realizing that I rarely, if ever, worked from CDs as thorough as my own.

Thankfully I no longer build. I am technically untrained in my field, un-degreed, and except for the odd design certification, technically unemployable.

After that earful, I charge and am paid, since I'm self employed, for design, drafting (my design only), construction observation and advice (see the thread on that one), construction budgeting (which experience enables me to perform), $100/hr. I'm in a new city for about a year, and business is slowly becoming active. Fortunately I have an incredibly supportive wife with a very strong income. I do, however, get paid what I charge.

I hope this helps!

[WendyWelton]

Adam,

Good for you. The hardest lesson to learn, when you go into business for yourself, is to ask for what you're worth. A lot of people forget that for every hour your work that you can bill, there will be another one that you can't - training, marketing, bookkeeping, vacuuming the floor... Then you have to factor in overhead - that Chief license, the computer, gas in the car, health insurance...

Architects have long worked on a multiple of anywhere from 2x to 3x - meaning if you would be worth $15 an hour in Dilbert Land, you should bill $30 to $45.

If you're absolutely inexperienced and lucky to get any work, do what you have to do on the first few (call the part you don't make "tuition"). But, don't stay there for long. 90% of getting paid what it really takes is having the guts to say the dollars out loud and to say "no, I'm sorry" when you need to.

Remember that every project you take that's wrong is occupying your time and making you unavailable for the project that's right. You're better off spending your time on more education, marketing or networking that working at a loss.

I've also found that when I underprice myself I am underappreciated - to the point at being at higher risk for legal problems. It's a pretty well documented phenomenon that people who project an air of being valued, will be valued.

Be brave, say the number out loud to the mirror, practice on friends, then go out there and get it.

Wendy

[kanon]

Wendy is right on...get used to asking for what you are worth - Then realize that if you don't get certain jobs you should be thankful, they probably would have been a real pain if they are baulking at your fees up front.

[Donald Freix]

Adam and kanon, (we are always happy to know your real name)

Thanks for expanding on my thoughts. Another factor to price jobs that weighs heavily is the time allowed by the client for you to complete the work. I had to measure a house (no existing blueprint) design a build-able concept and supply some relatively simple plans for a contractor to apply for a variance to the setback from a high water mark. The builder's specifications were literally, "one story, out to these stakes, mostly glass and a deck above the whole addition."

The existing house was a half-octagon, sort of half hexagon, basement walkout on a terraced landscape. I figured the roof pitch, tentative roof structure, attachment to the existing house and window layout, etc and had three days to get it all done to meet submission deadlines to get on the calendar of the local zoning board in time for the contractor to possibly get his variance before next Sept/Oct.

I have a standing base contract and a trusted relationship with this particular contractor, accounted my over-time hours needed to complete the project when he wanted it, (3 late nights in a row) and charged accordingly. He always grumbles about the price but always pays because he understands what he was asking me to do.

Architects I know are charging $36K and more for a simple $500K house. Many I know don't want to touch a house for less. One, whom I have worked for, isn't doing much residential anymore because there is not enough money in it at those rates. I've done similar work as draftsman for another contractor for about a third that price and thought I was making out fine. Contractor was assuming full liability here. This is what I see, and being someone else who is (using Adam's term) "technically unemployable," as the niche I might continue to find decent rewarding work in.

Don

[kanon]

Sorry Don-

I am Greg. Kanon Group, LLC is my company. www.kanongroup.com

Greg

[Donald Freix]

thanks Greg.

[mcqueenhomes]

I have been part-time for a few months and have tried remote design. Frankly, I don't like it all that much. I'd prefer to design in my area of the country, in my specialty, and closer to my level of experience. Less concrete mega-mansions with ultra-grand foyers with multiple curved stairs and more adorable frame cottages with Melissa archways.

Note that in my case "design" refers to the 3D model, floor plan, elevations, and almost nothing else. Basically the same as the value received from buying plans from a magazine from the grocery store, except I can usually lay it out to suit (and for probably less money). I try to stay away from complicated structures, though.

My rates are pretty low because I mainly normally offer a pretty limited range of services with (hopefully) pretty low liability. I do 3D modeling, rendering, and video/DVD, usually from an already completed set of construction documents. I love doing these remotely. Nothing beats the comments I get back when I deliver a fresh ray-tracing, either.

I've been offered $25-$40 per hour depending on regional location (for the services that I do provide) and I will open full time at $25 early July. It is an introductory rate and may change with demand. Either that or I'll be the last residential 3D modeler in America if the housing bubble bursts. While part-time I was charging only $16, but that's way too low for full-time. For a business offering full-design and/or construction documents, though, rates would be much higher.

Fortunately I can take low rates because I'm still single, can't even get a driver's license, and own my home (and the office it contains from which I work) free and clear (as of this Monday morning). I also have a reserve in savings to get me through at least 2-3 slow -years- (slow meaning absolutely no work at all, so it would probably actually last longer than that). Those are the same reasons I can be an entrepreneur and only work a 40-45-hour workweek if I want. This situation in itself, even without the business, took three years to plan and execute, along with perfect timing that could have only come from God's guidance.

I would definately have to charge more in order to grow the company (new office downtown at 106 3/4 Tower Ave., employees, training, insurance, etc.), but the first priority is to make sure I can EAT! To get from Hillsboro to Centralia I pretty much have to go through Longview first, know what I mean? "The -steps- of a good man are ordered by the Lord."

I truly believe that the reason 90% of all small business fail is that their owners expect too much from them too soon. A new business almost no one has heard of yet can't pay for the big office, the big mortgage, and the F250-4x4 right off the bat. That takes time.

One thing I don't hear a lot about here but I learned it from working at Intel: Make a point of administration, research, and development. It's non-billable but it's the best (and least stressful) way to learn new things and make sure all systems remain on-line and on-time (so if a project goes significantly over because I need to figure something out I can take it out of my budget of A-R&D time). I have no idea what it really will be but I'm estimating 25%-33% based on what I've experineced already for the services I provide. That's like making $15-$18 per hour. Hopefully once everything gets going it will be towards the 25% side. R&D is also somewhat a guard against becoming obsolete like Crown Insurance Recording did in the early 1980's when video cameras became cheaper and thus more ubiquitous.

Then there's taxes to figure in: Uncle Sam want's his part, even if you embezzled or stole it.

For me, overhead is pretty minimal but I have a monthly budget to set aside for the next computer, the next Chief upgrade, internet service, mailers and CD/DVD blanks, other software, and long-distance. I also personally have a budget goal for upgrades on my "new" old house, which, even though the house needs a new... house,... is appreciating rapidly as of late.

As far as scheduling goes, I'm still figuring that out. That will probably depend on how you like to work. Another factor in scheduling is the case where you need info from the client to continue (versus guessing for them and then charging for the change request when I guess wrong, that just seems wrong to me). My experience seems to indicate that if that happens I want another project as a backup to work on while I wait for them to get back to me, so I have no "down" or "idle" time.

Then there's the seasonal factor. I have no idea how seasonal 3D modeling is, but I'm starting off planning for a 48 week year. I have a reserve for the slow times so I can adjust later if needed. If my year turns out to be shorter than anticipated I may have to up the rates a little to compensate; if it's way shorter than anticipated I might need a new business arm for that part of the year.

Of course this is all meant to be taken with a grain of salt, my business has all the size and experience of a newborn baby, if that. I have to get back to packing anyway. So I'd recommend listening to folks like Wendy (she's quite articulate and has been very helpful).