The new way to save

[roraback]

I am just not crazy at the new way Chief saves. Maybe I am not grasping something but the old way worked better for me. Once you hit F3 you were safe no matter what happened after that you could always go back. Now I dont know what to do when it gives this problem message and says there was a problem use save as. Geez, it just was a lot simpler before. What good is saving when the program corrupts the file? Am I missing something?

[David J. Potter]

Robert,

Can you give us a little more detailed information please, I am not sure what you are implying yet?

DJP

[Dermot Dempsey]

Save in V10, using F3 or Control-S, still works the same way it always did (except your plan is stored in one file instead of many).

I think what you are running into is the new "999" error. In V10 we introduced a new way of handling errors that would have usually caused a crash in previous versions. This should, in the long run, make V10 much more stable then previous versions because it will give you an opportunity to save your work instead of just getting booted out of the program.

If you get a 999 error the program will tell you to do a "save as" and then restart the program. You can also exit without saving your most recent changes. In either case, we always recommend restarting the program because you could have more problems if you continue to run. If you do a "save as", we recommend checking out the plan to make sure it is not corrupted. If you continue to have problems with the plan, we recommend that you go back to one of your backup or archive versions of the plan.

If you continue to get 999 errors with a particular plan or you can repeat a given sequence of steps and get a 999 error, please report this to Tech Support. If we can find the source of the problem, we can then try to get a fix into the program for one of the next updates.

[WendyWelton]

Robert,

I found that message confusing also. When it says "save as a new file" it means you should use SaveAs and save under a new file name. I just add a "2" to the file name.

Dermot,

I've had some files that continued to give the message for many moves past the original message - so that I reach a dozen or more copies of the file in rapid succession. You said we should also restart the program? There's no mention of this in the error message, and when I inquired during Beta how to respond to that message, I was told only to use "saveas" and not to restart. I would recommend that you update the wording in that error message to be far more explicit. Also - what exactly do you mean by "we recommend checking out the plan to make sure it is not corrupted"? How?

I hate to bring up the "A" word, but AutoCAD introduced a feature many many releases ago called the Audit. It's a utility you can run that will find and correct errors in the database. We sometimes have to run it a couple of times until it comes up clean, but it works.

The suggestion to go back to a prior save doesn't work for me. The prior save often results in the same problems. Also - I do a lot of my work in front of clients, and having them pay me to do the work twice doesn't impress them. I'd like a little more guidance on how exactly to respond to the dreaded 999 message. I've been apologizing for the "new release", but that won't be satisfactory for very long.

Release 10.0 was, frankly, attrocious and embarassing in this regard. I went through several design sessions with a dozen or more "save as"s needed. I tried to update to Release 10.01 when I saw it mentioned here, but the update option on the menu took me to the Chief website, where it said there was no update available. Future updates need to be immediately available to all of us, and these crashes need to be at the head of the list.

Release 10.01a seems to help - particularly with roofs. I would also ask that a current bug list be posted, so that we all know what the trouble spots are and can adjust our work accordingly. I know you are all working hard to solve the problems. If we are going to be asked to work with a buggy release, I think we can also be trusted with the list of bugs you are working to fix.

Wendy

Wendy

[architect4stars]

Wendy:

We have tried to explain this to Dermot in another thread... I think we hit a brick wall. Our time wasted doesn't count. We still won't get a bug list.

[lbuttery]

I have ver 10 but have no intention of using it for "real" work until this beta phase ends.

I'm reading way too many postings concerning problems.

[Tim Wakaluk]

I strongly second Wendy's assertion.

I've just installed V10.01a this morning and am already having problems with custom muntins not sticking and causing ass-failures and 666999's. (as posted in the beta 10 forum).

Tried the Save As routine but that failed to work so I sent yet another Solobug report (No.41 already) and am preparing one more as this just does not stop, even with variations.

If I'd had this much trouble with 9.5, I'd have sent it back for a refund.

Tim

[WendyWelton]

ART,

As Larez mentions, I've seen requests before for a bug list. I've seen bug lists developed and posted by the producers of most of the other dozen or so CAD programs I've used.

Software is a custom product that will have bugs. We know this. When we ask for a bug list, we are asking for a valuable tool, so we can all make informed decisions about which projects to begin in 10 and which ones to keep in 9.54. With the current drum beat about crashes, you are essentially having everyone be a Beta Tester, whether they agreed to be one or not.

I agreed to be a Beta Tester and was aware of the risks. That was before I paid real money and switched my assistant and my interactive design work as well. I want to use 10, because it has some real speed tools - but am having to add time, for free, to the work I do in front of clients. It screws up my schedule, as I usually have another appointment afterwards - not to mention the fact that I'm not supposed to be free. If I knew what the known issues were, I could make a case by case decision about whether to use 9.54 or 10.

What exactly is the stumbling block to posting a bug list here in this forum?

Wendy

[architect4stars]

Well said Wendy.... Many of us feel exactly the same way. There are some great new tools in V-10, and we can all see it's potential. We also are not naive enough not to understand that it takes time to work bugs out sometimes.

I have always known better software packages to include "known issues" on their sites, before updates are available. And when the updates are provided, the resolved issues are listed. Their users are not left in the dark. This may actually create a lot of fallout for Chief. I am amazed that our complaints are not being taken seriously.

I am the type that will walk away from a company, if I feel snubbed. The issues we raise are reasonable and standard practice in the industry.

[roraback]

Dermot and Wendy,
Thanks for both of your replies. That cleared up my understanding of the problem I was having.
Bob Roraback

[jpb]

I suspect Art is less responsive <publicly> to error issues and would never post a bug list because their competitors could then seize the issue to say 'this is why you should avoid Chief...'.

IMHO, I would rather have stable software with fewer features than unstable software with more features.

[Dermot Dempsey]

If you are currently experiencing any problems with 999 error messages using the 10.01a update, please report them to us and we will try to correct these issues.

If you are experiencing any other problems with the program, please report these to us as well. Please don't assume that others have already done so. You would be surprized at how often we hear people say that they thought someone else had already reported a problem when we hear about it for the first time. Unfortunately, we can only fix the problems we know about.

We are committed to fixing any and all problems that people find in our programs. We will release updates on an as-needed and as-available basis to address these issues. We have already released one update (10.01a) to address some of the most important problems that were found after release. This update is available through the updates page of our web site but the easiest way to find it is to use the help menu and select Download Program Updates.

We are currently testing what will become the next update (10.02) which will address other issues that have been found. This update should be available soon but not until we are confident that we have not accidently introduced any new problems. We will release this update for limited usage first without making it available on the updates page. You will probably hear about it on this forum when we post it.

If any important issues come up that we have more information about, we will usually post that information on this forum. If we can we will add information to our online help database that can be found here:

http://www.chiefarchitect.com/userac.../database.html

Since problems are currently being fixed very quickly and updates will be released soon to correct these problems, most of the V10 issues are not going to ever make it into the help database. This forum is probably your best source of information about problems. We are trying to monitor it as frequently as we are able and post information when we have it. You should be noticing posts by myself and others from Chief Architect alerting you when we have confirmed a problem and that it will be fixed in an update.

It is our goal to be as responsive and helpful as we can, but we can't do this instantly. We are fixing problems as fast as they are reported to us but it always takes longer to get updates out so that we can make sure we have corrected the right problems in the best way. We will certainly try to tell you when you have found a problem that has already been corrected or will be corrected in an upcoming update. We will try to post a list of issues that have been corrected in the updates when they are released but sometimes making this list is more work then fixing the problems.

Thank you for your patience and support.

[gpickren]

Apparently ART does not want to address the refusal to produce a bug list other than to imply we all need to be hassled into the point of frustration to induce us to submit a bug report. Why not post the bug report and ask all who are experiencing the same bug to respond. That way ART may be better able to practice triage.

There is one simple way for the users to respond if ART refuses to acknowlege the problems caused such as what Wendy shares.-- we simply all return V10 for a refund. As I said I am willing to let my money ride using a Beta program provided all reasonable remedies are offered. Obviously all of these things were not caught in Beta, perhaps because of time and also perhaps because Beta users are more proficient with standard Chief operations. Regardless, ART needs to understand that when the program repeadly crashes in front of a client, it is our credibility that crashes with the client.

My 30 days is just about up. Is ART going to be cooperative or should I just send it back and wait until the program is ready for commercial use? If this great need is ignored, then I think we should all send the program back.

[gpickren]

Regarding the issue of competitors using a bug report to their advantage, I submit to you that when a group of users of software are willing to continue to use it instead of getting a refund, and do so because they recognize its value and the qualility of the company behind it, that instead of being a negative. Sticking with this version while the bugs are being worked out are an endorsement as to the merits of the software and a vote of confidence in the intent and the ability of the developer to correct it.

I would be happy add my testimonial to any bug page, as would, I am sure, numerous other users. This should not be a marketing concern. ART's competitors are already making hay over this, bug list or not. And when it appears that a company is hiding something, one always thinks the worst. That is the current situation now. All a competitor has to do is tell a prospect who is considering Chief as an alternative, that Chief has so many bugs in their new release they are afraid to even publish the list and then refer them to this forum.


Therefore, I call on Chief to prepare a preceedure for a buglist and workarounds. My 30 days ends in 10 days. List and glowing testimonial or refund. Which is it?

[architect4stars]

I don't think that will be necessary gpickren. I believe their intention is great, and the product is great. Let's be considerate and understand that they must be under some pressure already. I think they have heard us and I sense they will change things shortly. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

We have to admit though. Chief has the best technical support team in the cad business. I am not a butt kisser. I just try to be understanding and weigh not just the bad, but also the good.