I want to build a handrail for some spiral stairs. The handrail needs a radius with the start of rail 36" above the ground and the end of rail say................ 90" above the ground. Tried using a 3D molding but can't seem to get it to work. Any ideas?
I'd use sketchup.
I cant make a video right now. Have a look at the attached sketchup file. I separated out the individual steps.
Use a 3D Molding PLine that is just a 30 degrees arc and the end of the arc to match the stair rise in 30 degrees. Set the Molding to be centered on the PLine. Position one of these and then copy rotate about the center of the stairs with the "z" value matching the rise in 30 degrees.
I just use a generic symbol and attach the detail sheet from "The iron shop". Those details say it all.
like this. until they get better models.
I don't get how you get the slope. It seems that the start should be at a specific ht. and then the end of arc is at higher ht., can't seem to figure this out. What part of your above statement addresses this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carrick
Yeah, I get that. But my delta is 10', I can stretch symbol but that increases the rise and does not not increase the needed number of risers. Just did a vid on making a spiral stairs and it is really easy. The only tough part is getting a good curved rail. I can do it, but it could be improved upon if I can figure out how to slope the 3d molding handrail.Quote:
Originally Posted by perryh
Hi Scott,
I can come very close to a manufactured spiral using a Chief stair.
I can also isolate the railing and turn it into a symbol that I can use on a stair built from polyline solids
It sure would be nice if we had the ability to use the existing dbx and plug in Z elevation values for both the start and end when doing a spiral handrail, or perhaps other details as well. Seems to me like everything is there but the code to make it happen.
Attachment 59552
I will be interested to see where this thread goes as I will be starting a project with both a spiral staircase and a circular stair case.
Yes, that is a problem. Right now I just stretch a symbol and it does looks pretty bad. I just don't have the time to spend on creating the exact model. As long as I add a detail page it works for permit purposes. I would love to do it in Chief so I'll go watch your video. Still need the detail page though.Quote:
Originally Posted by dshall
Bill, it sounds like we are building the same way, psolids for stairs and the rail per description below.Quote:
Originally Posted by billemery
http://youtu.be/kziX-zqZDhs
My rail is segmented. I built a CA curved stairs with rail, took an overview, deleted all surfaces but rail and turned into symbol. It looks like you did same thing. Your rail is also segmented.
Joe seems to think he can build the spiral, waiting on work from him on how to do a SMOOTH (unsegmented) top rail.
Wait, how about a curved ramp, not stairs, I will give it a try.
Yep, that works, and so much easier. Use a curve ramp, take overview, delete surfaces of ramp, railing remains, turn into symbol and all is well............... SUPER!
Hi Scott,
Here is a spiral done in Chief. Yes, the handrail is segmented, but it's close enough for me.I haven't tried it with a ramp
Bill, be very careful using the floor assembly as the landing. I believe the landing is provided by stair company. The stair landing by stair company is not as DEEP as your floor assembly. You could have head room problems using your thick floor assembly vs. the stair companies SHALLOWER landing assembly.Quote:
Originally Posted by billemery
Hi Scott,
Yes, I know, but just wanted to show that the stair can be done in Chief without a lot of workarounds.
I try to avoid using manufactured spirals, as they are so cumbersome to use.
I learned that the hard way..... just wanted to help just in case.....Quote:
Originally Posted by billemery
Bill, is that an actual Chief stair? Or a symbol picked apart. Nice one
The problem with using ramp is the pickets do not go down to treads properly. So............ building pickets with stairs is the way to go, but if you want a SMOOTH top rail, use the ramp with a single top rail only. So the railing is made out of pickets from stairs and the smooth handrail comes from the ramp. The ramp can be very handy in making handrail symbols.Quote:
Originally Posted by dshall
Hi Perry,
That is a Chief stair with the stinger material assigned as "opening, no material". I did add the center column as a pline solid.
Of course that works in RENDER, but for VECTOR the stringer shows in 3D.Quote:
Originally Posted by billemery
Hi Scott,
I just got back from my morning golf at Encinitas Ranch.
Here's my 360 degree spiral using an arc 3D Molding Pline. It is segmented but only 7.5 degrees per segment - it just the way the arc is converted to line segments by Chief. I'm not sure if there's a way to smooth it further but it's pretty good and ray traces well.
I was able to smooth the 30 degree arc segmentation slightly by adjusting the molding offsets.
Hey Joe,
I've been keeping an eye out for the solution to this very issue in CA for a while so I'm very pleased to see the subject come up. However, I've created an arc exactly like you have, but in the Transform/Replicate dbx, the bottom button, "About Current Point" is greyed out and not selectable. Any pointers or suggestions????
You have to create a CAD point. The best way is to look at the arc, figure our exactly where the center of the arc is (x/y) and then Input the CAD point at those coordinates.
This is a Spiral Stair I did for an 'A-Frame' Cabin.
And some others that I have available for a small fee :D
You da man Joseph! I'm off to the races!! Thanks for helping me out.
Joe,Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carrick
The reason that the rail is segmented is because when you edit the 3D molding line by changing it's End Z value, you really are not forming part of a spiral, you are just rotating the arc in one plane.
Try the same thing with a nearly completed circle and you will see that the arc stays coplanar and just rotates in the one plane.
You can't actually define different start and end heights for a 3D polyline arc - they always default to coplanar.
The short answer is read this, the long answer is reeeeeeeeead thiiiiiiiiiiiis
http://www.chieftalk.com/showthread....ghlight=spiral
Glenn,Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Woodward
Take a good look at the 3D PLine dbx (Selected Arc Tab). The Start and End Coordinates (x,y,z) can be edited.
Joe,
I have had a good look at the dbx, and I know those settings are there.
But giving the Start Z and End Z different values doesn't create a helix - it just tilts the arc in 1 plane.
Can you demonstrate to me how you can create a helix from a 3D molding polyline arc (say an arc covering 300°).
Or drag one of your arcs so that it nearly forms a circle.
No point doing it with a small arc, because you cant see the result.
I maintain that you can't create a helix from and arc - but I am always willing to be proved wrong.
What I believe you are doing is tilting the arc in one plane and ending up with this:
Glenn,
Check Posts 22, 23, 26 & 27. Those were created exactly exactly as I indicated. I've been using this method for several years. The one thing that you can't do is make a helix of more than a 359 degree arc because then it's a circle that connects the start and end points and doesn't allow different z heights.
OTOH, since I only use 30 degree segments and rotate/replicate them at specific z increments it may be that you are correct. The smaller arc segments may make the distortion be too small to see. IAE, it works for me.
Joe,
I know that you can make an approximation of a helix by multicopying a small piece of tilted 3D molding arc, as per your posts.
Can you please tell me how I can make a 3D polyline arc spanning 300° using 1 molding polyline arc.
Attachment 59634Attachment 59635Hey Scott,
I watched the entire video - way to long....................................
You could have saved a lot of time by just paying me to do one for you - I don't charge that much :D and you would have a better stairway ;) I could have even made an Escherian Version for you :cool: :cool: :cool:
BTW, these can be adjusted for height, width or depth. You could even make them elliptical instead of circular.
His and Hers - for the couple that has everything ;)
Glenn,Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Woodward
You were absolutely correct in your statement that changing the end z values simply titled the arc. Since I had not tried to do it with a larger arc I didn't realize that's what was happening. This is why I started the thread in Suggestions requesting a "Helicoil Molding Pline" tool.
I've also experimented with the Ramp Railings but that's not a true Helicoil either as the Molding doesn't get properly "warped" thruout the coil. About every 90 degrees there is a disconnect as the warp has to be restarted. Basically, the cross section of the molding should be the same (it shouldn't be angled off of level) at every point along the Helicoil. Presently it appears to be level only at the center of a 90 degree arc segment.
So at this point in time I simply use the 30 degree arc segment, copy rotate about the centerpoint with a z delta equal to the difference in start/end point z values to get the full number of degrees that I need. I then display it in 3D and create a symbol of it. The symbol can be stretched within a reasonable range (width,depth,height) without being noticeably distorted. I generally start with 8" as my vertical delta because most spiral stairs will have a riser height of 7-1/4" to 8-3/4" which falls within code limits for Spiral Stairs. I also start with a 36" radius arc for similar reasons - ie: 30"-42" is the normal range.
OK Scott,
Here's my basics. I start with the individual components (all of which are symbols I made before)
1. 6" Post - about 4' tall with a spherical cap
2. Tread - 32-33 degrees so that the next one will overlap - top of tread at 9"
3. 2" diameter 30 degree handrail section (Arc converted to PLine - Lock Start - set end z to 9") - move up 41" so that it's 32" above the tread at the nosing
4. Place Balusters - in my case 1" round
The 2nd pic shows all these things together.
Next I rotate/replicate the Treads, Balusters & Handrail about with a delta z=9", angle = 30 degrees.
Depending on how may copies I made I then adjust the post height.
The third pic shows a 16 tread assembly which can be converted into a symbol that can be stretched to match the desired floor height and stair radius.
The advantage to using this method is:
1. I can reuse just a few different pre-made symbols (the things that the fabrication shop does in the real world.
2. Each component has it's own material named to match the component (post, tread, handrail, baluster, etc)
3. Once the final stair has been converted to a symbol it can be stretched vertically within about a 10-15% range without being too distorted. The Railing, Riser Height, Post & Balusters all stretch together.
The 1st pic shows another stair with just 13 treads - it's so easy to make any size I need. If I need a special railing or some other custom feature I just add it to the repeatable unit.